Should women compete alongside men in big-wave events? Big-wave gals say no!
I watched, and wrote about, the entirety of this weekend’s 24 Hours of Le Mans endurance race.
It was an odd job. I know absolutely fuck all about racing. Don’t know shit about cars in general. I can change my oil, swap out a flat. That’s about it.
But I’m not in the habit of turning down paid work. Especially when it pays well. Which this did. The auto industry has deep pockets. Not some penny ante shit show like surf. Audi spent $242,000,000 on their prototype program in 2014, the year they won Le Mans.
And that doesn’t come close to the amount companies dump into their F1 programs. Nearly US$3 billion dollars spent among ten teams. Mercedes alone dumps nearly half-a-billion bucks into their racing team.
While I’m not running out to buy a new home with the paycheck I’ve certainly done a hell of a lot more for a hell of a lot less. And I was given total control to write whatever I want. Which I warned them was a terrible idea, but in the end worked out okay.
Le Mans puts on a stunning show. Rather than deal with the hassle of finding a pirate stream I shelled out ten bucks for the official site. And it was worth every penny. Constant updates on placement, running stream on the sidebar regarding which team was pitting, struggling with malfunctions, being handed penalties for various infractions. And the commentary! Oh my god!
Two man talking teams doing six hours shifts over a twenty-four hour period. You’d think they’d run out of shit to yammer about. But the guys did their research. Constant delivery of analysis of tactics, explanations of equipment, interesting stories regarding drivers and teams and the history of the sport. During the overnight slow moments they answered questions from viewers, explained the more confusing aspects of the competition.
Managed to keep me engaged nearly the entire race, even though I’m definitely not a real fan of the sport. Even towards the end when I was running on three hours of sleep over 48 I kept watching. Kept listening to what they had to say. Things I’d’ve found mind-numbingly boring sans context held my interest because they told me why it should.
They made the surf guys look like chumps. Like half-ass talking heads. Shameful, shameful, in a sport that’s purportedly looking to pull in a non-surfing audience.
Two women in the race. Christina Nielsen and Inès Taittinger, both of whom are smoking hot. Neither came close to winning, but merely finishing Le Mans is a victory in itself. Simply trying is a triumph.
Check out an onboard video of a single lap. Keep in mind the drivers do this for up to four hours straight while dodging cars from slower divisions the entire time.
I mention women in racing because it came up in a failing email exchange I’ve been trying to do with Paige Alms over the past month. She hasn’t responded in ten days, I’m giving it up for dead.
Our back and forth has been going poorly. Largely due to Paige’s refusal to answer questions with anything other than vague fluff responses and my somewhat combative approach. I’m not into the idea of promoting someone who won’t actually engage me.
Don’t feel like playing PR stooge.
Both Paige and Keala Kennelly don’t believe women should compete alongside men in big wave contests. Mainly due to physical differences. I think that’s bullshit, a true competitor is always about trying to win against the best, not looking for a lower level where life is easier.
Paige challenged me to name a single sport where both sexes compete side by side.
Sailing, auto racing, and equestrian events came to mind. Which she thinks don’t count. “Ya but those are all sports that rely on a vehicle, boat, horse. Surfing strictly relies on you, your ocean knowledge, wave selection, board, and Mother Nature.”
That logic falls far short of truth. A surfboard is a vehicle. Sailing and auto racing both depend on dialing in equipment, knowledge of and reaction to shifting conditions. I don’t know shit about horses, other than that I don’t care for the stupid animals.
Her stance also possesses a fatal flaw. If she doesn’t want to compete with men, then she really doesn’t want to compete at all. WSL is only running a single BWT event for ladies, and their sanctioning policy will bar invitees from giving it a shot elsewhere.
A truly shitty arrangement. One I’d never find acceptable, if it were applied to me.
By the end of the race I was ruined. Twenty-four hours awake, the entire time spend trying to make sense of what was going on.
But the final moments were magic. After leading nearly the entire race, a full day spent hammer down balls to the wall, Toyota had it sewn up. Win was in the bag. Second Japanese team to claim victory, first was Mazda in 1991. Three minutes left in the race, on the home stretch.
Then failure. The leading Toyota broke down, couldn’t finish the lap. Porsche blew by, took the win. Toyota pit crew went from joy to despair. Porsche went from second place happy to first place joy. It was an amazing moment, one that reached into my exhausted and by that point kind of disinterested mind.
I don’t know if I’ve turned into a racing fan. Probably not. Got some appreciation for it now, but I’ve put too much into this surf gig. Don’t relish the idea of relearning a new sport. The arcane details of prototype racing are better suited to an engineer than weirdo creative type.
But I’ll probably pay attention next year. Watch some parts, if not the whole thing. And if someone offers me money to write about races again I’ll happily jump at the chance. It’s a grind, sure, but way fucking better than a square job.
I passed out around four am Sunday morning. Eyes burning from staring at various computer screens for twenty four hours straight. Fingers sore from typing out the long rambling screeds I produce when given free rein. Got a phone call from a dear friend two hours later.
Dearest Ryan, I live in a different time zone. If you ever forget that again I’m gonna fly to LA and fucking murder you in your bed.
I guessing your Missus put you up for that one Rorz.. indirectly? Ha ha. Kudos to you. A Herculian attempt at some complexed subject matter.
Hypothetically, let’s correlate Macgregor vs Rousey…as an imagining..? Kind of a rare/novelty event, high risk of injury..
for Conny. ha ha…ummm..
Love this story 💙
Totally. I’ve talked to a number of women in elite sports who understand this — they have to create the world they want to see.
Was good all week until Sunday evening when it started getting maxed out. Monday and today have been way too big for most spots and its supposed to get even bigger on Thursday…I’ll spend most my time watching men with balls bigger than their rhino chasers charging Pico Alto and Puerto over the next couple of days
I got to hand it to you Rory, that was some entertaining reading.
Not the story above, that shit was a plague of disconnect
Here’s the link for others to enjoy
http://www.autoblog.com/201…
From the comments section of autoblog
Dear Autoblog — please never do this again. It may be “cute” to have a foul-mouthed, self-absorbed surfer to live-blog; but (as you can tell by the number of comments), most of us went elsewhere if we could not watch it.
Only a few of the big wave guys actually make a living from surfing (despite putting their lives on the line). Regardless of gender equality issues, if I were an aspiring female big wave surfer, I’d be all over the men’s tour in hopes of being one of the few.
Hopefully it’ll run as I’m a bit further south than PE but swell yesterday was massive and today is unruly, huge…local big wave spot looked mental
big part of the problem for girls coming up is that the market is still rewarding soft porn career Instagram models who can surf a bit and look good in a g-banger rather than “elite athletes”.
Not right at the top but at plenty of levels just below that.
That’s draining away resources that would otherwise be supporting genuine talent and not teenage masturbatory fantasies.
You’ve hit nail on the head there Longtom!! BUT is it also Paul Speakers masturbatory fantasies!!!
Absolutely, Alana is a prime example. The big box surf brands could give a rats ass about women actually winning a contest. They want to use their assets to sell product. Shameful, yes, but no one forced Alana to take the pictures either.
i don’t see womens’ volleyball putting their gbangers away either. they know why most people are watching.
That’s changing too. The big surf brands have less sway over the surf culture at all levels now; the WSL investor’s commitment to somewhat of a gender equality thing has already had a pretty strong effect on younger surfing girls, who have some pretty epic talent to look up to now. The Olympic thing will change it even more by pushing funds into skill development across gender divides — something the surf industry resisted for generations other than in a few outstanding cases.
I like the optimism, but there’s no way brands that sell bikinis are going to start sponsoring ugly girls just because they surf well.
What you may find, though, is that brands selling bikinis and women’s pro surfing are no longer bound together as tightly.
that I can see. It may just be that Roxy and the like give up on their pros all together.
Agree that’s definitely holding the sport back now. But I wonder how much longer that lasts. Women athletes are still outside the mainstream to some degree — but nearly half of all women who go to college in the U.S. now play sports. That’s not going to change attitudes right now today, but it is going to change them over time as it becomes more the norm for women to be athletes and compete in sports. Also, look at how many dads are bringing their young daughters into the sports they love — surfing, mountain biking, whathaveyou. That, too, is going to be a big change in how women approach sports, understand their place in it, and are perceived by the wider culture. I mean, I guess I hope that happens!
Missed your calling there big fella. Ro(a)ry Parker is a great name for motor sports.
Well as a matter of fact (as an example) there is about a 17% difference between Olympic volleyballer men and Olympic volleyballer women in terms of power off the mark. And (specifically), in short burst paddling movement, tests at Australia’s surf high performance centre over several hundred athletes in the past four years show around a 28% difference in speed within the first five meters between men and women. So the differences, while probably exacerbated by surfing’s “cultural differences” (i.e. gross long term sexism within big wave surfing), are quite real.
Whoa whoa whoa way too much actual fact here I think caps lock and anger would be more convincing.
Tragically I am actually interested in this stuff.
This is the Trump / Brexit era Nick, we need hate and fear not logic.
Well let’s see where logic is in a year or two.
I’m not sure I see it on the big wave side of things. Let’s say we’re at 20 foot Mavs at an all female comp. Can they catch waves? If yes, can they stand up and ride them? I assume the answer is yes to both questions, otherwise they wouldn’t be holding the contest.
Same comp, now with men in the heats too. Can the women still catch waves? Can they still stand up and go straight? If yes, I’m not sure I see a reason they can’t compete with and even beat some of the men.
Of all the different types of surfing out there (shortboard, longboard etc.), big wave surfing seems the one place that women should be able to compete the best with the men.
You’re lacking experience in big surf. Explosive paddling speed and overall physical strength counts for a lot more in waves over 10-12′. Not to mention sheer lineup machismo — a way bigger deal in big surf. The top women in WSL competition are a lot closer to the top men than the best big wave riding girls are to Shane Dorian et al; they’ve had more time to work on it.
so you’re saying that the girls couldn’t catch waves at 20′ Mavs if they were by themselves?
I think you’re being obtuse. Women *can* surf 20′ Mavs by themselves. Differences in explosive paddling speed and overall physical strength mean that women shouldn’t compete against men, but rather against each other.
Sorry, there’s nothing really more to riding big waves than catching them and finishing them. Give me more to work with.
No, I’m saying exactly what I wrote above.
Yeah. The argument that women should compete with men falls apart when we start talking about physiological differences at the elite levels. And those differences are documented. At the elite level, the gender differences narrow, but never quite converge. Male athletes have higher muscle density and more lung capacity — and that’s not really going to change any time soon.
I do agree with your comment above that gender differences in surfing will narrow and the top women will be faster, stronger, going bigger.
In the paper “The Five Sexes” (which actually argues there are more than five), Brown University professor Anne Fausto-Sterling points out that sex exists in a continuum, with intersexuals (people who don’t have all the physical characteristics of males or females) constituting about 4% of births. That’s 1-in-25 people!
Even when someone’s genes match the standard XX and XY patterns, these chromosomes often don’t carry all the traits people think they do .
It turns out that the path from genes to behaviors is a long and winding one with many environmental influences. Rather than directly influencing behavior, genes direct the formation of proteins, which make up cells, which constitute neural systems, which in turn form the basis of our actions.
That’s why, rather than debating nature versus nurture, many researchers espouse dynamic systems theory, which views these components of human development as highly intertwined.
Also, did you know that studies have shown that women feel discouraged from entering fields they perceive as male-dominated, that they are less likely to get involved in pursuits said to require innate ability.
Sometimes, people conform to gender roles because they don’t want to be criticized for defying them.
Also, most studies are performed in the West – researchers coined the acronym WEIRD (western, educated, industrialized, rich, democratic) to describe the populations they normally study – extrapolating from their results to draw conclusions about humanity as a whole discounts other cultures that are less frequently studied.
i *heart* you, nick.
why does the dark seas ‘wetsuit jacket’ have a front zip?
yes, i clicked on an ad. anchors do that to me. i am ashamed. but my question remains pertinent, no?
Because it’s not actually for surfing in, just for showing your manly chest hair. Hence the name “conman”. Damn you for making me click…
Think it’s targeting the Rasta market
Worked for the power balance bands. How has Rasta lived this down?
Through the mystical power of crystals
BG need me. I can get people to click ads. I’ll take 1/5th of fuck all.
Should James B, Trogan and Tio Sam compete on the BWWT? Only if it’s Code Red and certain death says Beachgrit comments!
Oh, weird… I think the comments are broken?! Anyway, my two cents…
I think this is problematic on two levels. To start with, it’s overly simplistic, but motor racing is not surfing. Rather, racing has a long history of women drivers who are held in the same high regard as male drivers. Arguing that women should compete with men in a big wave comp because they compete on a race track is assuming a level playing field in surfing where there simply isn’t one and historically hasn’t been.
Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, biology. To say that women and men are different isn’t sexist. It’s science. Surfing, especially big wave surfing, is a physically demanding sport. Does that make female surfers less? No. Does that make them different? Yes, and that’s ok. Some women can compete with some men but to say that a woman isn’t good enough because she can’t beat all men is naive at best.
Perhaps part of the reason that Paige was/is hesitant to talk is because so many people are confusing the matter. From my perspective, these women are fighting for, and deserve. equity. This isn’t the same as equality.
I believe that women in surfing perform at a level below men because the talent pool is smaller and there is less support. Look at grom level competition. Pre-pubescent boys surf circles around the girls, even though at that point girls are often larger and stronger.
And a surf contest isn’t a paddle race. You don’t need to be strong enough to out paddle the field, you just have to be strong enough to catch the wave.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having contests divided by sexes, but it boggles my mind to hear someone say they don’t want to compete against men, when that is the only opportunity they currently have. Who cares about winning? Only one person truly wins, most people never do. It’s about trying.
Yeah, sure, maybe one day the WSL will run a women’s BWT. Next year they get one contest. Literally the least they could do.
I don’t believe the idea that women can’t compete on that level because they’re too weak, because their bodies are too delicate to handle the wipe outs. That just isn’t true.
I think you’re right that there is less support, but arguing that women should compete against men because that’s all they’ve got and they should be happy with that somewhat perpetuates that lack of support.
However, you then lose me… I don’t think that being “too delicate to handle the wipe outs” has anything to do with it. Sometimes a surf contest does come down to a paddle race. Often it is about who can paddle into and commit to a bigger wave but certainly people who are interested in competing (and I’m not one of them) care about winning. Tell any of the guys on the ‘CT or ‘QS that it’s not about winning, but about trying, and see what sort of feedback you get!
“Maybe one day the WSL will run a women’s BWT” so let’s push for that. Why should these women settle for a bit piece in a men’s event? Again, I’m arguing for equity, not equality.
the BWT doesn’t make money for the WSL or the couple dozen guys that can justify the expense for the chance of winning a purse that barely covers those expenses. any lineup i’ve been in is at least 95% male, and there’s no “business” holding big wave contests for them, how are you going to make it a business for the maybe 5% of surfers that are female?
Oh and recently I watched a 12-year-old girl training at the Surfing Australia high performance center, complete several full flips backside and frontside off the center’s specially constructed aerial practise ramp. Two 19-year-old QS men pros watched slack-jawed at this display. I think women will outstrip today’s male pros within 15 years.
you can’t actually believe that women will be better than men at surfing in 15 years… right? I understand it as a romantic gesture but to really put your stamp behind that statement is absurd
Michael read what I wrote. No! Wait! I will re-phrase it for you. The top women 15 years hence will be surfing as well or better than the male pros of today. The men of 15 years hence will still be ahead, but not by as much. There’s a gender gap here that’s bigger than in many other sports, and as in many other sports it may never entirely close, but it is narrowing.
I like this one better but still have my doubts…
Women are allready surfing better than men – its just that men control the paradigm for judging what’s considered good. “Speed, Power, Flow”. Change the paradigm to “Grace, Beauty, Elegance” and we have a different competition on our hands. The testostraline barons who see faster, harder, higher as always better, should maybe take a few caps of acid and hang at a duct-tape invitational for a weekend. (you saw the maybe, right?)
Qoth the Mahatma, hanging five – “There is more to life than increasing its speed”. Go on, give Derek Hynd a wild card into a women’s CT event.
Can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic, but in any case you’d still be wrong as you’ve foolishly forgotten Craig Anderson, the high prince of grace, beauty, and elegance
Grace off: Craig vs Steph!
Steph ftw!
Keala looks like my Nan’s old cockatoo that plucked its own feathers out in a bout of self loathing.
Keala’s more of a man then you’ll ever be.
No doubt.But the comment still stands.
they accept we are dominate and that’s all we ever wanted to hear
More paddling power would give men a significant advantage in a paddle-in big wave event.
Also, perhaps the male physique handles being ragdolled a bit better than the female physique.
Le Mans runs on an artificial track. Put them in nature and see how they go.
We all know surfing comps are mostly boring because mostly no one is surfing (just bobbing around).
I think this is problematic on two levels. To start with, it’s overly simplistic, but motor racing is not surfing. Rather, racing has a long history of women drivers who are held in the same high regard as male drivers. Arguing that women should compete with men in a big wave comp because they compete on a race track is assuming a level playing field in surfing where there simply isn’t one and historically hasn’t been.
Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, biology. To say that women and men are different isn’t sexist. It’s science. Surfing, especially big wave surfing, is a physically demanding sport. Does that make female surfers less? No. Does that make them different? Yes, and that’s ok. Some women can compete with some men but to say that a woman isn’t good enough because she can’t beat all men is naive at best.
Perhaps part of the reason that Paige was/is hesitant to talk is because so many people are confusing the matter. From my perspective, these women are fighting for, and deserve. equity. This isn’t the same as equality.
“I think that’s bullshit, a true competitor is always about trying to win against the best, not looking for a lower level where life is easier.” Sugar Ray Robinson never fought Joe Louis, – does that mean he wasn’t a true competitor?
Yes.
If we follow this argument to its logical conclusion then there are no women who are “true competitors” in the Olympics as they are all competing in the easier women’s events! I don’t really give a shit about women’s sports, but even I can see with my sexiest eyes that some of the fiercest competitors in sports are women!
No.
We wanna be equal! But we don’t want to have to be out in scary waves, that have offshore wind that will mess our punk rock dike haircuts up. Seriously kalea is a mad(wo)man , that scar at chopes,oof, but how are we going to resolve this, her vs. Dorian, me vs. Target women’s bathroom.
I was perusing the WSL rulebook earlier and noticed they have inserted “Wave Pool Events” in the Dictionary in the index, despite no other mention of it anywhere else in the rulebook. “Events that are held in a man-made arena where all forces creating the wave are artificial”. So there you have it, first official announcement that the WSL will host events in a wave pool. You heard it here first.