A swinging little profit margin!
Do you remember the thunder five days ago when the Newport Beach shaper and artist Peter Schroff did yellow face on Instagram in protest at made-in-Asia surfboards?
“Ask our foundin fathers wud day think of chinese junk?” wrote Schroff.
I made a counter-riposte about a lovely Cambodian (or was it Vietnamese? I put a tailpad over the little label) board I’d received in lieu of cash from an advertiser.
Did it make any difference to me if the skilled hands were pink and freckled or smooth and polished brown? Of course not. Are we not all brothers, hewn from the same ancient tree, after all.
But I did wonder, what is the difference in raw cost between a surfboard made in Australia or the USA and one made in Thailand, Bali, Vietnam or China? I asked a friend, who is a world-renowned shaper, to break down the costs, and which you can examine here.
(All American dollars.)
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Have so enjoyed reading all of these comments. Many are informative and many should be deleted for stupidity. One thing I can say for sure is each one has an agenda. And my comment will also. I build boards right here in Southern California. I’ve had the privilege of laminating carbonwraps for Lost over the last 3 years. At one point in time I laminated every CW made in the US. Times have changed and Firewire has made every large surfboard brand re-evaluate their business model. For me personally I would like to educate the surfing masses on where their boards are built and then let them make a informed decision on whether or not to buy an overseas board. If I had one wish it would be that the US government would put a import tax on these boards. But that’s just a dream. Overseas boards are NOT the same quality as locally made boards from the US and AUS. And I’m not talking about the people making them. These people were taught by professionals that were brought in by the big surfboard brands to teach a craft. I’m talking raw materials. Cheap 1lb epoxy foam and cheap fiberglass to reduce material costs. These boards truly do not hold up over time. Have no idea where all this will end up but I’m glad to see people discussing it.
hey Mike , how does it feel to do all the Carbon Wraps for Lost and then they bring containers of them from Vietnam?
Pure Glass has an excellent reputation as a high quality manufacturer , how have the sales of the CW /Vietnam affected your production?
I remember you doing heaps of Lost PU’s 2-3 years ago , how are their sales now?
Brutus, there was a time I had 60-80 in the rack to laminate in any given week. Now I get team and customs that keep me comfortable. Got to remember they are being made in AUS, Brazil, and Europe now too. There are still shops in the US that ask for domestic boards. It’s the evolution of the industry at this moment. I’m trying to be as optimistic as possible when it comes to the future of board building.
Mike , great to hear your business is still surviving , did you have to lay off workers when the downturn came?
Would you say this is one of the biggest changes you have seen in the industry?
Are you doing any epoxy work?
Brutus,
Yes, this would rank up there to Clark Foam shutting down. We are very busy with epoxy work. A lot of it being standard shortboards with quite a few SUP’s and wakeboards in the mix. Color work and retro shapes are at a all time high. Seems like everyone in Cali wants a retro fish or bonzer. What has hit us the most is the clear poly shortboard market. We are down 80% from last year. And from what I hear from the industry insiders it doesn’t look like it’s coming back.
Mike , interesting you have had to change from stock PU/Polys , to custom Epoxy/Fish/Bonzers …..do you have any theories on why the customers have changed their buying habits , and don’t want shortboard Poly’s.
Is it the brands or a market shift in materials?
Brutus,
Think it’s a few different factors.
1.The US market is over saturated with clear polys right now. Brands are overflowing with stock that was made before the market switch.
2. Epoxies are ruling the market right now. Everyone wants to ride like Slater. A well made epoxy will stay white and last longer than a poly. I’m sure quite a few people will argue with me on this but I find it to be the truth. The average surfer that bought 4 polys a year at $500 each can now buy 2 epoxies at $750 each that will last thru the year.
3. We still own the custom market. Pop outs are all standard dims. If you want custom paint/resin color or liters you won’t be getting it from overseas. Thus the increase in retro shapes.
Once again this is my own personal opinion as I see it in the US.
I’ve got a few boards y’all glassed — you do good work over there. 🙂
Jen See,
Thank you. Appreciate the compliment. We have a great team of craftsmen.
Many surfers are like sheep. Following and mostly buying everything from the 4-5 main brands that are out there, not thinking about supporting some local shapers with sometimes insane knowledge and better quality (foam and eco friendly wise) and much more customisability. Excited to see how that might change in the future.
A Byrning Spears deep six from Dale is the most ridiculously good deal. So beautifully made, so good, such history, nicest guy.
You’re all forgetting most folks, in our contemporary society, expect to be able to accumulate a vast multitude of entertainment items, surfboards included, at the cheapest cost possible.
Manufactures and small businesspersons will always attempt to find the cheapest means to provide a product in demand for members of our modern society who have a lot more free/idle time to partake in entertainment pursuits than a half century ago!
You need to reduce your production and labor costs in order to compete for a portion of the market to stay in business.
Don’t believe me… look in your homes closets, cupboards, garages and storage sheds to see where the vast majority of your purchased items ( entertainment and needs) are made! CHINA with its cheap labor is at the top of the heap.
Ya want a high quality board… buy from your local skilled shaper/builder,!
Ya wan’t another cheap mode of entertainment… buy your Chinese/Indonesian board!
It’s a “free market” you have the choice!
Yeah add shipping on top of this so location isn’t a factor. I don’t know who makes tons of money on selling boards, I did’t think it was possible unless you’re the logo owner and you’re shifting thousands of units a year.
Longer lasting boards.
Interesting hey. The US surfboard market has been struggling for a while now with a flood of retail surf shop product — a classic bottleneck, where supply has rapidly exceeded demand and gagged the stores. Australia’s just kinda beginning to feel a similar effect. Big boardmakers have over-produced, thanks partly to a lower investment cost per item; now they don’t know where to look. Perhaps these low production prices carry their own peril…and not for the customer.
indeed, seen some concerning warehouse photos lately
Yeah, oversupply has provoked a crisis in surfboard manufacturing a number of times, going way back to the longboard-shortboard switch in the late 1960s. But it’s starting to feel like a cycle now. MT said size is the enemy of cool, well it is also the enemy of market response times. A lot of this oversupply would have been set up 18 months or more ago, when most of the bigger labels were intent on trying to get in on carbon/epoxy mixes. But in the meantime, much of the market has overloaded on carbon/epoxy mixes.
It will pass. Surfboard sales generally tend to trend with GDP and the USA’s GDP is accelerating right now. I bet this coming US summer is a bit of a bounce-back for boardmakers of all varieties.
They need to take a lesson from the oil companies and cut production rates when over supply is forecast so they can regulate price!!
Those whacky sheiks must have a laugh at them OPEC meetings.
Love it when I walk into a certain shop and they have a clearance section 20 boards deep, selling for $150-$200 less than retail. $650-$700 before tax and traction pad is getting a bit ridiculous.
and dirt cheap deals being offered here in Australia and USA to try and move all the stock.
Adulterers get short shrift too! https://uploads.disquscdn.c…
Lets not forget why they are being manufactured there to begin with: Cheap labor and zero environmental restrictions. Does that even matter?
Oh for sure. We’re all payin’ around here in one way or another.
Also, I totally get that some people don’t care about this kind of thing. 🙂
I think everyone should be paid their fair share based on effort involved with consideration for health risks and financial investment. Most of the health risk is on the glassing side. In wholesaling boards to surf shops, I think most of the financial risk is on the shapers side except for a few instances I’ve heard about.
I’m with you. Seeing what the Bali (factory is in Java actually) made boards go for, I would guess the price is right.
I don’t agree with the idea that a dollar towards a Hayden made in wherever is a dollar taken from a local shaper. I think/and see that both business models work. Shaping is a business and to be successful, one must be a good business person, ie, Mctavish, Pinder (on Oahu), Dewey Weber (Cali), Pyzel, etc. We are living in the renaissance of surfing right now, the golden age; it’s the best it’s ever been from a consumer standpoint. We have an amazing local shaper where i live but I order from other (off my island) shapers and I don’t feel guilty and the shaper loves seeing/riding my new boards.
The traditional way to solve the local manufacturing issue is to use area factories to build internationally marketed brand boards for that area. If Hayden hadn’t have teamed up with GSI he could have used existing factories all over the world near beaches where the boards would have been ridden. So yes that does take money away from local manufacturing. To each his own.
yes but the profits would be miniscule on a locally made HK . it’s the traditional local factories that are crying , get off ya butts and create a better product.
Trying to sustain the current Glass shops etc , is not going to happen , but if shaper/designers were offering better new designs and models hand crafted , say in PU/Epoxy , give up working with the retailers , and work direct with the customer, now there’s an idea!
Most profits in that situation are always minuscule but at least you were helping put food on your friends’ tables around the world while getting a check now and then. I know problems such as so many individual businesses to trust on the #’s and the stealing of intellectual property keep many a designer up at night.
How many of the current epoxy offerings were perfected with the help of local glassers and then offshored to spite them?
I’m not sure about totally giving up on retailers. What about doing a better job of working with the ones that pay?
and there lies one of the big problems for our local industry , not business acumen , a hands on approach to servicing their customers which always means a deal , or less money for the shaper.
The Cobra factory in Thailand has been doing epoxy for 30 years , so no spite to local glassers , just business and the only way for the smaller shaper/manufacturers to continue is , use social media and websites for direct sales and bypass the retailer!
Manufacturing a board in Indo opposes to Cali (or wherever) is not taking away manufacturing from Cali (or wherever), it’s expanding worldwide manufacturing. It doesn’t affect anyone I know. Its not easy to be a shaper or make a living in the surf industry (or any industry for that matter) but it’s possible. And if I was in the surf business, I’d be happy about the growing market but I’m a surfer, so I hate the big companies, expansion, and the marketing use of surf. I wish that shit would disappear from mainstream thought.
Market is shrinking. Many surfboard and surf clothing brands are struggling to stay in business. Only hopes are pools or fewer sharks and soccer balls. Or North Shore 2.
To me, the “surf market” means surfers, and there are more “surfers” now than ever, so it’s a bigger, and growing market. I haven’t looked at the details of the worldwide “surf market,” as it pertains to the manufacture/sale of goods/services related to the surf industry (clothing, sunscreen, boards, wetsuits, camper vans, transient vacation rentals, etc., etc.). I haven’t done a study myself, but i feel like surf related goods, services, and mini-industries have grown (from a global perspective) over the last 30 years, and I don’t see it shrinking. Maybe Billabong is taking a hit but my local surf shops are thriving. I just don’t see the surf industry going anywhere but up. Although I’m definitely hoping it disappears into a semi-forgotten sport.
Local manufacturing will need to find a niche and a customer base sufficient to stay in business or… find another business!
It’s commonly referred to as free market capitalism.
Ya select a product you can produce and sell sufficient numbers of said product at a price which is competitive to make a profit for you and your employees to remain in existence.
Not a very difficult concept to follow.
Not sure what local shapers you’re purchasing from, but I do know a brand new CI / ..Lost/ Tomo/ Firewire etc off the rack will set you back at least 700 bones..
Most local shapers (in my area at least) are charging about 500 for an equivalent off the rack hand shape… So, you tell me which costs more
It’s rare that a custom order comes out as expected but when you buy off the rack, it’s exactly what you want. Most of my boards are made for me but they’re standard dims and if I could have picked them up in the shop, I would’ve . . . at least I think I would’ve. I order hand shapes because I like the uniqueness of a board built for me, scratch to finish, with my name on it. By purchasing custom orders from local shapers, we are supporting local artisans, who create amazing pieces of art suited for our local conditions and our personal styles of surfing. Surfers in general are less-materialistic, ie, we know time/relationships/purpose are more important than piling cash; so, we don’t like the idea of a few people taking most of the money to create standard boards – we’d rather have the money go to local artisans, who create unique boards, for unique people and places, which hopefully will continue to push design development/evolution. My two cents.
I disagree with your “it’s rare” comment. And go the other way. I reckon it’s rare to get an off the rack board that goes the way you expect it to. I also think that most surfers really have no idea about how surfboards really work and so the attraction of buying the latest fad name board is intoxicating. How much of it is based on ‘how I actually surf’ vs ‘if I buy this board I’ll surf like Mason Ho’.
If you build a relationship with a shaper, you’ll get consistently improving results in my experience, if you are honest in your appraisal of your ability.
I get my boards made custom because it’s fun to go gossip and talk dims with my shaper. I’m not the average-sized bro that stock boards are built for, so that’s a consideration too. Idk, I’d buy off the rack if that was the only option and I’m sure it’d be fine, but I live somewhere I can get boards made by an actual human and it’s fun, so I do it.
ah , the actual experiencing of touching base with the foundation of surfing , interacting with a shaper , sounds like a cultural awakening or maybe its makes you feel more of a surfer !
wellll i’m not sure if i’d go so far as to call hangin’ out takin’ smack about our local scene a cultural awakening, but it’s fun!
and i do like my boards so that’s pretty win.
“I also think that most surfers really have no idea about how surfboards really work”
I agree with this, but think that, for these people, working with a shaper wouldn’t make even make a difference in improving their surfing. >95% of shapers absolutely suck and couldn’t produce anything that would perform better than a stock board from one of the bigger board makers like CI, Rusty, JS, etc would. That holds true whether you don’t know how surfboards work or even if you do.
I know what works for me and I only ever get boards off the rack. If you’re honest in your appraisal of your ability, you should also know which stock boards will work for you and help you improve in areas you need to.
I agree most surfers have no idea about how surfboards really work , I also think that most shapers don’t know really how surfboards work , and maybe that’s why you think that buying stock boards from the big brands is better!
But who actually decides for you whats best?
Good question. Part of my problem is that I don’t have the kind of disposable income that would allow me to go through several boards a year, experimenting with different board designs and test out other shapers. I get a clunker and my surfing is fucked for however long it takes to save for a new one, which makes me prioritize certainty. After years of surfing different boards, including a variety of both custom shapes and stock models, reading about/talking with shapers about different design characteristics and what they’re supposed to do, and shaping a few boards myself, I have a sense, however misguided, of what will work and I decide. As of right now, in present circumstances, I have determined that getting a board from one of the big brands, which, for me, has a relatively high chance of being enjoyable, is my best option. Would I benefit from having a relationship with a shaper who knows what they’re doing and who also knows my surfing? Probably. Though, even if I did have the disposable income, I would still probably choose stock boards, again, because most shapers can’t execute on their shapes. A custom from one of them is still worthless. I crave performance certainty.
Karl, I know what you mean. I am in a similar situation in regards to boards.
Here is a formula for a good board that will never lead you astray, and I’m going to get a lot of shit for this. It will only work if you are an above average surfer.
Look at which model the majority of the shaper’s team rides year after year at every single contest. Thats the board that will always work. It leaves you with two maybe three models from the majors, that you know will perform.
And that makes perfect sense!
It’s interesting when you talk about a good average board , team riders for the brands , and I like how you work out the 2-3 models from the majors.
I think that you are right in a sense of being cautious , and making sure you get value for your $’s , but it does bring up choosing which surfer and model suits your surfing?
as you well know all the pro surfers have different models trhey like as they all surf a bit different and history has shown there are surfers who ride boards that no one else can Tom Carrol ,Kelly etc , so what interests me is making the designs better every year , and getting better s/bds .
that’s a bloody good answer , sounds like the local custom shaper has not delivered you good boards , were they handshaped or machined?
I come from the old school , if you aren’t riding a magic board , you are the process of working towards getting one. Just an average board is not good enough , and certainly over the past 25 years the machines have delivered a homogenised surfboards , which has been great for the average punter .
I crave the best board of my life !
I’d say the opposite, most good shapers rip, ie, Pyzel, pinder, Tokoro, mctavish, and even Matt Biolos is better than most. And the more local/smaller scale shapers absolutely charge. Then there’s the older local shapers that are legends. That’s just my experience.
Pyzel rips, JS surfs ok, Tomo could beat most QS riders, Hayden, well Hayden is just handsome, but Matt Biolos sucks haha lucky he is a good shaper as he would get humiliated by most good surfers at any beach on any day!!
For a fat, old, white dude, I’d say he’s pretty good. This is the first video that pops up when I googled “Matt biolos surfing.” From an objective standpoint, he’s better than most surfers.
https://m.youtube.com/watch…
that gammy front hand is a bit peculiar.
Haha, yeah, I just watched the video again, and it appears like his upper body is being controlled by Geppedo. Also, he looks super inflexible, but, he’s old, fat, and probably can’t touch his toes, so . . . haha, he’s pretty shitty but still better than most (in California).
don’t get me wrong, I reckon he’s going pretty good. Just got a gammy hand.
Making sections, linking turns, probably enjoying himself, whats not to like?
hahahaha if you think thats good then u should find another sport!
Pretty good, means better than most; and why would I find another sport if I think he’s better than most?
Ok, ok, ok; I looked at the video again, and yes, compared to Bryce Young or Dustin Barca, Biolos looks like a fool: arms flapping about, legs wiggling little lame snaps, etc., but still, he’s. . . Ok, he kinda sucks.
He’s easily surfs well enough to add vital information to his craft. Isn’t that the most relevant point?
From a “glass half full” viewpoint, Biolos’ surfing is junk, but from a “glass half full” standpoint, he moves his board better than most. I’m sure his own experiences contribute to his board designs.
95% of all shapers suck, says the guy buying off the rack… did you buy 100 boards, from 100 different shapers, off the rack to reach this conclusion that only 5 met your satisfaction? That’s a lot of cash and research to come up with that very broad and dubious generalization
Yeah, 95% is a gross exaggeration and “suck” too harsh of an appraisal. Damn hyperbole.
I agree with you said. What I meant was that they usually “come out different,” i.e., ordered a 7’ 0”, blue bottom, orange top; came out 6’ 8”, purple and yellow, with a red pin stripe; or ordered a “lowrider” but got a “Cali noserider,” or ordered a 6’ 6” all green, but came out with a green bottom, or ordered a 5’ 11, 19’ inches wide but came out 19.5, or they put a long carbon strip when I wanted it shorter, etc. That being said, all my customs work better than I ever hoped they would. A well surf-educated advanced surfer can pick a board off the rack but like you said, most surfers are of average/below average skills and knowledge, so, it’s hard for them to pick the right board when they don’t even know what’s best for them, in their conditions, with their goals, etc.
No fucken way they are $240 wholesale!? Do you have this on record or hearsay? Maybe, maybe $240 cost – but even then that seems low.
The cheapest boards we get wholesale are Supers at $300USD.
DHD, JS, HS, Firewire, Slater, Merrick & Lost all cost us around $400-450USD wholesale and this isn’t a bro of a bro word of mouth prices this is on the order sheets in front of me.
shipped or made locally under licence?
These figures are not including shipping.
its gotta be cost, unless you’re a retailer with leverage
Not following. Not sure who “we” is since importers aren’t giving you any deals relative to the cost of their boards. Price paid is matched due to importers taking advantage of all those involved in domestic production trying to make a living wage.
There was a day when the clever shop owners would offer deals to their local crew on boards, most of which were also made locally. Most shops had their own in-house brand. You could actually tell where someone was from simply by what they rode. The upside of that being the local crew would in turn purchase their wetsuits, boardshorts, leashes, etc., from their local shop and continue a cycle of sustainability (perceived?) for all involved.
It was was surely a more complete experience going down to the local shop to pick up a new stick vs. the Amazon delivery guy handing it to you at the front door.
So…
Why continuing buying those things from that yellow and lousy people?
Buy americans products! Push american industries and factories!
Follow your leader!
Remember his promise!
https://uploads.disquscdn.c…
Ok ok ok
Much better
https://uploads.disquscdn.c…
question, why do you call them pop outs?? u do know they (off-shore boards from the top brands) are all machine cut as pretty much most high turn over board brands be it local shapers or bigger national shapers not offshore (yet), hand dusted, hand glassed/laminated, hand sanded, hand painted etc etc… none of the boards u mentioned are moulded or mass produced by robots.. if u call them pop outs because they come out of a factory, well then i guess all boards are pop outs in some way..fair?
They’re mass-produced by the hands of workers that are more than likely treated like street dogs, all so Jimmy Slade can better line his alpaca wool pockets. It’s telling that on one hand he’s got a clothing company that is focused on sustainability, eco-friendly materials/practices, and creating a better working environment for those who manufacture the product. On the other hand, he’s mass producing boards overseas using cheap labor in a land that has no regulations on the types of ecological impact that mass-surfboard production can have on the environment.
I think you’ll be hard-pressed to find many people here on the Grit who share your affinity for Asian made surfboards. I can definitely tell you that FireWire doesn’t need you to defend them against people who are speaking out that might be being affected negatively by their business practices.
Actually FireWire is the only big board manufacturer making certified eco boards
The list of certified builders is quite long, FW does the best job talking about it.
http://www.sustainablesurf….
I think FW are the best talkers/marketers in the Business , not bad for a Co , who does not sell surfboards , but just puts them on consignment which shows you how desperate they are for sales and to get market penetration , and make shit loads of $’s!
again disappointed abut ur lack of actual knowledge Brutus , most major brands do that in the states but Firewire sells their boards in the rest of the world like every other brand!! next time have a look outside your postcode before you paint a brand with ur shit brush
You talk as if you’re the FBI of global surfboard production. Your data is skewed and your facts questionable at best. How can we believe you actually know what the fuck you’re talking about, I’m almost positive Brutus’ postcode is on the opposite side of the planet from the US hotshot.
Ah Rock the fort , consignment in Australia/France and the USA .
Not sure where you get your info , but I get mine direct!
again, please do share ur contact or “mates” shop as you comments are sounding more and more made up to push a personal agenda!!
why don’t you just go down to your local shop and if they stock Firewires/Slaters , ask the owner/manager .
@brutus USA is the only country in the world firewire does consignments, they don’t use the model in Europe, Australia, Asia etc mark has mentioned this in interviews and recently in s podcast google it, my local store confirmed this.
They do consignment in Australia , one of my retailers has 50 in his shop , and last year the first consignment Firewires were dumped in France.
yes , but they are certified by Sustainable Surf , which is paid $’s from Firewire , and Patagonia does not have anything to do with them as SS are a bit of a hoax , if you use Entropy Bio -epoxy you get a sticker !!
Exactly, who is Sustainable Surf and what do their certifications even mean?
trust fund surfers , who set up an organization to supposedly change the world!
Their certifications make the customer think they are buying green!
Go figure, another grand facade
Customers like Roquefort!
absolutely, i dont care what model, size, shape or brand – as long as that little logo is on i buy it and pay double – u fucking moron. but saying that i am always looking to support companies that has some sort of transparency and actually tries to give a fuck, unlike sad old left behinds like you and ur halfwit mate Brutus
I’ve never met Brutus and don’t know who he actually is, although I have an idea. I can tell you I’m roughly half his age though, if he is actually who I think he is. So once again, you’ve been corrected!
fuck off you dont know Brutus!! u two definitely know each others and i think in a way you dont really want anyone on here to actually know!
So what do you ride smelly cheese?
Well Brutus, wouldn’t you like to know..but, im not a fake fuck about my info like you so i will break it down – i have asked you to mention ur mates shop name many times now but u are toooo big a fucking pussy to play ball…
my daily is:
1.Tomo EVO, hate and say what evvver the fuck you want – till you try one shut ur fucking mouth about “my conventional board is far far superior” a dinosaur like you would never know! this board in day to day dribble up to head hight is next level and Tomo is breaking the mould where you guys look old and dead!
2. LSD Chubby Chedda, been loving this model for ages and feels so good in punchy beach breaks!
3. Pyzel Bastard, for when it gets fun and hollow!!
i have a TON more boards in the garage (Firewires, JS, Gunther Rohn, Darcy, other Tomo’s + a bunch of no names) but these above are the favourites! yes i am eying off a Go Fish from Rob Machado as im looking at a good fish in my quiver and have heard nothing but killer reports (im sure your shop mate will say they dont sell and everyone hates them haha) also super interested in testing a Varial and GEO blank board as i have heard very mixed reviews and i actually like to test before i slag..unlike others!!
So a fake fuck Kook like me , is a pussy for not mentioning a source of Info , I know nothing about EPS / branded models and Tomo is your hero shaper, LSD has good model for you , Pyzel also seems to have a stake in your quiver , then you name drop a few local shapers like Gunts/Darcy/JS , hahha and a few “no names” , and Machado GoFish coming soon…hahaha….
I’ll save you the time on the Varial , strong but toxic to shape , and deforms in the shaping and glassing so you get more or less rocker , but not the original.
Waiting for Guy to get me a Geo , as before I make observations on anything , I do my homework which consists of hand testing.
here’s some homework for you , who made the first EPS /Epoxy surfboard that won a CT contest and went onto win a World Title?
well Captain B, seeing my quiver is such a comedy show for you (and i bet ANYTHING that you have not tried a Tomo, so to your comment below “i do my home work” dont start!) what exactly do you ride, give us an insight to what a “real” quiver should consist of…and dont bullshit like u do about ur so called “network” and trending info..
hmm yeah i have heard that about the Varial – still have an itch to try it tho. im pretty sceptical about the GE Obut again, its a new build/foam so still want to test it. I liked XTR build but fucking HATED dealing with the people!!!
now this is a quiver for a fake old kook that is a pussy , and someone who is halfwit , can’t shape EPS anymore??
So I will start at the top and work my way down through my quiver
1 x 9 8 gun
1 x 9 6 gun
1 x 8 6 gun
1 x 9 0 longboard
1 x 8 0 longboard
1 x 7 7 gun
2 x 7 4 funboards
2 x 7 0 step ups
2 x 6 8 step ups
1 x 6 6 Hybrid
1 x 6 8 Hybrid
1 x 6 4 short board
1 x 6 3 shortboard
2 x 5 11 tow board
1 x 5 10 hybrid fish
3 x 5 9 tow boards
this is my active quiver , have about another 50-60 older favourites!
wow – i dint ask how big is ur dick! what board do you bring when u surf check or do you load the arsenal up every morning?? but u also forgot the important question – what “brands” do you ride, regardless of Major company or “local” handshapes?
seems you like dicks and butts , you bloody banana bendas , ah you just don’t get it , most of the boards are MC’s , couple of Arakawa’s/Rawsons , bit of a mix , all custom made, so how did you go with answering that Philosophical question…….
ah fuck it , my name is Maurice Cole what’s yours ?
im smell French Cheese, im sure you know me! and yeah sure..ur MC! and if you are then even less respect for going by “Brutus” and talking shit about other brands!
and no, im not really a massive fan of dicks or butts (on men), i do like Banana’s (in smoothies) – what is the Philosophical question u soo want me to elaborate on? again – if u ARE MC – WTF are you doing wasting ur time on here?? Me, im waiting between jobs (as i know you will ask)
and when did Patagonia make surfboards?? Sustainable Surf is for surfboards not clothing..come on Brutus, i actually thought you knew something?
Patagonia have been making surfboards for decades. Fletcher Chouinard , son of founder Yvonne , is an incredible waterman , from kite sailing to monster waves is the Shaper designer .
SS are for surfboards , and all the Firewire /Slater boards have the sticker!
fair call there, but have u actually looked into the materials used in firewire / Slater boards and what and how they deal with their waste , fuck most business around the world could take some learnings from these guys! i will honest and say that i dont know enough about the Sustainable Surf crew or business plan to stand up for those guys, but at least they are trying to help create a platform for a cleaner build rather than just keep pushing toxic shit in the water..do oyu not prefer cleaner materials = cleaner oceans, environments or u that ol skool u dont give a fuck except for where u piss?
yes, as we see them for ding repairs all the time , cheap $5 EPS cores , below average quality , and boards on consignment , which as Mr Patagonia says,”is unethical business practice” .
the first law of sustainability is don’t break the board , then use the best materials to create the board , which at present are the BIO epoxy’s !
so ur saying PU’s made locally never snaps?? and the resin on them is AS good as BIO resin – and $5 blanks..come on Brutus u are now also starting to make a fool of yourself here – not just me!
Yes I often make a fool of myself , it’s in the DNA !
But compared to you , I look like a genius .
OK I will spell it out for you ,a PU blank with a nice 4-6 ply stringer glassed in Bio-epoxy is the most sustainable surfboard , unless you get your board vacuum bagged or infused which is stronger again but a lot more expensive.
Are they also fair-trade certified??
According to ceo mark price FireWire are currently in the process of getting fair trade certified
damn u sound like as big of a knob as ur avatar, i really dont care for pleasing anyone on here and personally i could not give 2fucks where my boards or shorts are made!! do i have had customs, yes, did they go better than off the racks, fuck no! and if guys are loosing business well then obviously they are just not as good as they fucking thought they were! i love how everyone is going “Cheap Labour this and cheap labour that” just tell me how may shapers or glassers actually pays their works an above minimum wage in US or AUS, i guess fuck all!!! but lets keep living in a fucking fantasy world where all local shapers make a ton of $$ and also did so before board builders moved off shore as local workers were asking too much and doing way too fucking little to keep it in said countries! also dont forget that the consumers have pushed the manufacturing offshore as everyone expects a deal and the prices of boards have really not increased that much in a long long time considering the cost of materials/overheads etc etc – so if you want to have a successful business model u have to be smart and not be a whinging retard! So fuck you, i will defend Firewire, Slater Designs, JS, LOST and anyone else who has a business brain and not stuck in the past. Yes handshaping is an artform – 100%, but business is fucking business, either deal with it or stay a sour fuck..or u could service ur niece/local clientele, perfect ur craft and be successful in ur own space! and in regards to the ECO side of the builds of boards, im pretty damn sure Firewire would destroy ANY shapers cleanliness and commitment to the ECO aspects of modern surfboard build! do yourself a favour and read some info from third parties commenting on their business ethos, certifications (not only Sustainable Surf) learn what they do with excess foam and materials, look at the BIO resin they use and especially the new so called Re-Rezin they are now using and tell me again that the “local” guy is a more conscious than they are…fuck they would properly not even have to do all this shit to your point building in Thailand, but the fact is they do – so who looks like a fucking idiot now…well not them!
…”so who looks like a fucking idiot now…” Answer: the guy who just wrote a fucking novel of misspelled words and run-on sentences ranting heaps of bogus information for days on end.
there is 2 clowns on here that is ranting bogus info non stop and thats you and Brutus…man u guys talk more shit that ur hero Donald T..but with a role model like that i expect nothing less from a bunch of halfwits like you guys!
You won the Don award for the fakest news , no back up , homophobic comments , so you have accepted the award , and cannot answer anything to do with surfboard technology , hahha , I imagine you live in QLD , sound like Joh’s love child!
what are you talking about “cannot answer anything to do with surfboard technology” i believe this is more aimed at you as im keeping it pretty open and you refuse to share your so called sources or info – and i imagine you live in Texas or some other shithole with a hate for anything not american made
open minded does not mean knowledge , and I could make up a shop , lets call it Real Water Sports for now …
Close to Texas , well nearly ,and I love Asian made because it makes me profit, or not!
ha an online discounter, hardly much credit there!!!
It seems you love the superficial world of headlines and can’t recognise a good retailer ….best shop in the USA for hardware!
well if he is ur buddy then for sure it is! i actually read somewhere “best shop in the world” but thats should be a fact seeing “best shop in USA yeah??”
sorry captain grammar cock!
Fuck you sound more and more like a pimp for the Big Brands , most of what you are saying is nonsensical , but do you believe consignment is a moral and just business practice?
that is a question for the retailers who accepted these terms!
can’t even answer a simple yes or No , to a moral question , we might knight you as Sir Donald Troquefort!
hahaha got a ring to it, when u start to answer my question i promise i will answer yours!
struggle with philosophic questions eh……Real Water Sports…your turn….
give me a name with some credit and not an online discount store.. be like asking for wetsuit advise from Kings of warehouse..when i get a real name i will answer whatever u want to know
the owner of Real Water Sports is Trip Foreman , and just so you know Real Water Sports sells more surfboards than any other shop in the USA , and look at the brands he carry’s?
well when u discount then for sure, no challenge there!
every shop discounts when needed , so how’s that philosophical / moral question going?
Pop outs or just stock boards , and then there are customs.
So there are Aust popouts and Asian!