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Shocking: The World Surf League and Facebook Live exclusive deal deemed a failure!

The latest postmortem!

Of all the great mysteries in our surfing world, the question “How many people actually watch professional surfing?” is chief. It is more confounding than “What really happened to Mike Boyum?” More perplexing than “Where are Miki Dora’s alleged millions of dollars?” Because “How many people actually watch professional surfing?”

Well, however many people actually watch professional surfing just jumped by 25% after the World Surf League annulled its exclusivity deal with Facebook Live and shall we read the newest, just released postmortem together?

It would be silly not to and let us turn to digital industry website Digiday for the latest.

Last year the World Surf League signed an exclusive two-year digital distribution deal with Facebook in an effort to grow its audience around the world. A year later — and a year early — the WSL has ended that deal’s exclusivity and has seen its audience around the world grow.

In 2019 the number of viewers tuning into the live broadcasts of the WSL’s professional surfing competitions online and on TV has increased by more than 25% compared to last year, according to WSL CEO Sophie Goldschmidt. That viewership increase appears to be less a referendum on Facebook’s live-streaming service, which the WSL continues to use to broadcast its events on a non-exclusive basis, and more an indication of how the league has worked to broaden its content and distribution mix in 2019, including the formation of an in-house studio to produce original programming, in order to broaden its audience.

There was also a limitation on the league’s ability to generate revenue from the Facebook Live streams. Facebook pays the WSL to air its events through Facebook Live, and the WSL is also able to sell event sponsorships. But, while Facebook runs ads within some live and on-demand videos and shares the revenue with the media companies and creators, that wasn’t an option for the WSL. Facebook does not allow ads to run within live sports broadcasts, according to a Facebook spokesperson.

“We were happy to collectively rework the partnership with World Surf League. Doing so enabled us to serve different audiences with different viewing experiences, including one on Facebook Watch where fans can watch together in a highly interactive and social environment,” said the Facebook spokesperson in an emailed statement.

Etc.

You should read the entire report here but let’s get back to that 25% number. Does it mean that the World Surf League has had 25% growth overall this year or that literally the 837 people who watched professional surfing on Facebook Live (the average number floating in the corner of those broadcast) has grown by 25%?

Also, does anyone you know use Facebook Watch where fans can watch together in a highly interactive and social environment?

It sounds very wonderful. Like our own analog “Comment Live” feature except with data mining and modern technology.

Also, “What ever happened to the brand Analog?”

That is the second greatest mystery in our surfing world.

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Waz

Why write an article when you have nothing to say?

Bad Medicine

In the words of Billy (Preston) Shear: Nothin’ from nothin’ leaves nothin’

James Bickerton

The painter or the Ninja Turtle ?

Ross

And the greatest mystery of all, what exactly are the viewership numbers for the women’s events?

Superworm

Naaa it doesn’t even matter any more. Bad numbers across the board. When they work out the formula to fix men’s they will fix women’s too.
UFC mixes men’s and women’s matches on the same card and nobody objects. High level is high level.
Women’s fights headline UFC cards. Bullet Valentina and Nunes are amazing to watch, just as I’d rather watch two top female surfers over two low ranked CT males.
But the 15,000 rounds of 2 and 3 person non-elimination rounds for 196 days straight formula has to end.
This ain’t The Ashes.

John Wayne

I don’t watch UFC…..but are you simply suggesting that they will halve the mens tour (so there are the same number of men and woman – would also mean you could run the event in a short window) and then run two mens heats then two ladies etc ? I wish they had that format during Margies when The Box was on. I would have loved to see the ladies out there. Some of them would have caught more waves and had more of a dig than the guy who Jack Robbo smashed.

Superworm

Not sure if they will get that mixed, but round for round. And quarter the length. All sudden elimination, like every other sport. 2 day events. It’s been thrown around here for a long time. Decent waves. Like even if it’s 2 foot make it decent air waves or something.
The format is struggling is all.

Frontwards Fin Frank

Millions upon millions of angry face emojis pouring in from all over Pakistan, India, and Bangledesh as the J Bay event was going on. It was glorious moment in WSL history ( “since 1976”).

mike m

Down to the exact second, you already know when the next Super Bowl kickoff will occur.
I don’t have the faintest clue what time, or even what day, heck not even sure which week the Billabong Pipe Masters will begin.
Surfing can’t go mainstream, it’s way too unreliable, which is awesome for everyone but Sophie and Dirk Diggler’s pepe.

Luke

This is fantastic news. The Fakebook exclusive was a complete shit show and manipulative move at best. The user experience was awful.
A lot of us don’t have Fakebook and want nothing to do with it. I’m not sure who it was that signed off on the idea in the first place, but it shows how our of touch they are with what needs to be done.
I uninstalled the WSL app as soon as they said it was going exclusive and then just watched the highlights on YouTube. Sure, I didn’t get to watch it live, but I felt strongly enough to go without the live experience.
I can’t have been the only one?

Vegetable Lasagna

I think it was only one or two events before they switched the lights back on with full coverage on the WSL app.

Superworm

Yeah I never even had to, for me there was always a small link at bottom left of sign in page for “Not now” or something.
But bad waves and long form comps kept me away last year.
I wonder if anyone has considered that

janeausten

I did sign up with a fake account, because I am a Woozle tragic, and found the Facebook ‘experience’ utterly horrible. I got sucked in to the usual stalky type Facebook behaviours. I could feel my life literally ebbing away with every click.
Well done you for avoiding.

Ross

Yep I had the same experience. Used the fake account for about a half hour which was all I could take then attempted to delete the account which apparently you can’t really ever do.

janeausten

Facebook=Herpes

SlickSaintNik

This is such a load of BS. Notice how they are trying to turn the utter and complete fail of a partnership with Facebook into a positive? And where is the is 25% supposedly coming from? People watching a clip on Insta?

Nick Carroll

I fear you may be right SlickSaintNik, this is a failure being claimed as a success.

That 25% figure is pretty airy isn’t it? What does it mean? 25% more people year on year in the events held so far? The events have stretched out longer overall this year as a result of the change in format. Are there more people watching or are they just having to watch longer?

It is a better year though, more interesting. JJF and Kelly in play in their very different ways, I bet that alone is making the diff.

Preston

Kinda hard to believe they have 3.3 mil on Insta but only a couple thou live. But then again a partnership with Facebook probably does wonders for an Insta account.

Superworm

I know a guy who can get you those kind of insta numbers, if you’re willing to part with the cash

Chad Lebrone

Events are stretched out more this year?? Really?

2 of the events used the overlapping heats which means they finished the event in less time. And those overlapping heats were awesome from a viewers perspective. I wish they’d run overlapping at the Box to make the most of the 3-wave sets and maybe get through 2 rounds out there.

The things that have stretched the events out this year have been a) swells forecast for the 2 last days of the waiting period, and b) Red Bull airborne. Absolutely nothing to do with the change in format.

Chief Hot stuff

There are no failures
Just steps to success

SlickSaintNik

haha. Come on, Bex – I didn’t peg you as an “everybody gets a trophy” type.

Chief Hot stuff

I just watched that doco about that robot chick from Theranos.
I can see where the show silicone Valley got all their ideas from.

James Bickerton

She had a good head start ( up ) with a name like Elizabeth ( long to reign over us ) Holmes ( dicks like John’s don’t come along every day ) ?

Frontwards Fin Frank

i’m sure there is a failure = success post / article somewhere on Linkedin..

John Wayne

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Mochillupo

Using Turtle from Entourage in their ads probs killed Analog.

Chad Lebrone

With a name like theirs, they were always going to struggle with the digital transition.

M.
James Bickerton

Fat wa ( ves ?

fatboy

What ever happened to Todd Klein? 25% better post heat interviews

James Bickerton

Gone Fishing ! He turned up , to commentate , at the last QS 6000 in Japan

Preston

Yes, badass professional fishing guide. https://youtu.be/VU4XKwJGQBs

And a bit of announcing as well I believe.

Toin coss

Live from Lowers. 25% more verified https://uploads.disquscdn.c… VALS

Phat-wan kerr

looks like a poorly formed paddle out.

James Bickerton

I reckon I can spot the only happy amoeba of the colony on this SoCal Agar Plate .

Toin coss

VAL colonies, very interesting concept. More questions than answers. Is Laird the King or Kelly? Do they naturally form, can they be genetically engineered and or manipulated? What’s BG’s role in this tragic comedy?

James Bickerton

The Grumpy Local in me would love to see BG as the Ultimate Antibiotic , wiping this plague of VALs from the surface of the earth but as Camus said “L’important n’est pas de guérir, mais de vivre avec ses maux.”which roughly translates to “ The essential is not to be cured but to live with one’s sufferings “ . So I find myself , as the French would say having my bum between two chairs ? Who am I kidding ? Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius………”Sir, what shall we do, for we cannot distinguish between the faithful and the heretics.” The abbot, like the others, was afraid that many, in fear of death, would pretend to be Catholics, and after their departure, would return to their heresy, and is said to have replied “Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius – Kill them [all] for the Lord knoweth them that are His” and so countless number in that town were slain.” Thankfully Surfing is not like Christianity . Om Om Om Om ….The VALs seem to have taken Lowers and maybe they should be taking Uppers instead ?

longtom

kill ’em all let God sort ’em out?

James Bickerton

Thats it . Kong’s T-shirt ! Dealing with Heretics but I think we just sadly have to learn to live with them and try to educate them as best as we can ?

Lemon Next to the Pie

Jeezuz. The brain power being flung about this chilly morn is overwhelming.

James Bickerton

Cold ! On the Sunshine Coast ….. ? Hot Night here near the wall . Summer is Coming ….

Lemon Next to the Pie

It’s relative. In Bali, I used to regularly surf a rivermouthto the north west with a local, let’s call him Ketut, for that was his name. I remember one day when a cloud washed in front of the sun whereupon Ketut started shivering. The 2 degree change in temp from the shadow was enough for his stabilised body to be thrown out of whack. Blew my mind.

janeausten

Was he wearing a thick leather jacket in August?

Lemon Next to the Pie

Nah, shorts and singlet year round, just the chilly cloud cover to cope with.

The Bitchy Crab

Bickerton. You like books. Tell me: the most transformative you’ve read, recently.

James Bickerton

You can call me James .My fiction days are sliding away , sadly . Currently rereading Yuval Noah Harari’s A Brief History of Humankind after struggling through Stephen Hawking’s A Brief History of Time and finally finishing off the last book in the Dune Series 35 years after reading the first tome . Always feel very sad for those who restrict their lives to one book when every single one has something to add or subtract to the experience of being ?

Jen See

I’ve gone the opposite direction, probs because of grad school. I haven’t read nonfiction in ages.

James Bickerton

Jen . I never read at school . Hated it . But through life experience I got a real taste for it and gobbled up all the great books I’d heard mentioned in books which lead me to other books which lead me to other books and now being a dad and married I have slowly been forced to reduce my consumption .

Jen See

I feel like I never read good fiction in school at all — so I read tons of it now.

Grad school was infinite piles upon piles of books. I think I read like 25 on the French Revolution alone and another 30 on World War I. Not sure I ever want to see another footnote in my life 🙂

The Bitchy Crab

Is A Brief History worth my twenty bucks?

James Bickerton

Of Humankind definitely !

Chief Hot stuff

Snowing in Bali
A real Cocaine and surfing expose

Low wide stinkbug stance

Operation Playboy is pretty good (same author). Makes you want to move to Brazil and sell drugs!

Chief Hot stuff

Yeah, I read it, amazing how she got them talking in such detail.

shootsthen

That herd needs to be culled. Who would paddle out into that nightmare?

James Bickerton

I would imagine for blokes that surf Snapper on a regular basis that this line up might not seem so crowded ?

Lemon Next to the Pie

It’s all about approach. Either way, you have to know whether you’re going with the flow or apply the full aggro style. It’s all about the vibe, man.

shootsthen

Ugh, i guess it’s all relative.

Ghostface Braddah

Apples and Oranges. Snapper swells are so close and short intervals that the crowds some how work themselves out. Lowers is lull city.

James Bickerton

Having watched surfers waiting for sets on the QS and CTs at Lowers I can see your point and what a shit fight it must be .

Superworm

Oh shoots, this ⬆️

Chad Lebrone

It’s hard to tell from a photograph – for example, this image doesn’t show how many of these people are Brazilian, or just downright cunts.

James Bickerton

The human surfing condition ? Born to Suffer / Surfer ? I was very fortunate during a period of 20 years to surf alone very often with only one downright cunt ( me ) . Forced to smile happily , especially in Summer with so many Happy Customers on land that I just couldn’t keep the game up ,of being nice to the people in the water.

Toin coss

Fuck, someone channel Siggy Freud. Short answer, I saw a surfing dog flying down a set wave and a blind surfer too! No shit. So there’s a pretty good range when you add it all up.

Jen See

That does not look that fun, really.

Toin coss

Does the Queen get this congested? Do you find a corner to nibble on or avoid at all costs when packed?

Jen See

At times, it does, yes. Depending on swell angle and such, there can be nibble bits — and you know, unless the talent level is really high, people like fall and stuff. It’s good when people fall and you can snarf up their leftovers!

Toin coss

Ahhh, nothing like watching a fellow sojourner eat shit at that perfect moment, just as your black little (or enlarged) heart desired so you can jump to your feet and haul major ass down the line on a gorgeous sheet of canvas. Double the satisfaction if it was a kook, a hot lapper, a blow in, an old man, a kid, a skank or a hodad. Triple it if a sponger, quad if SUP.

SectionSB

Im my opinion, best times are mixed up swells, 2 or more angles. Even weird sloppy days will still have 2 out of 10 waves that are unreal, let the visitors get the others….Go! Go! Go! Its all yours!Then there are all kinds of different sections, slow, fast, barrels, ramps etc etc. Its like 4 or 5 waves.
Perfect angles and clean swells have always been a pain, dating way back.

Wilbur

God that looks miserable. I counted 72 people but some at the peak are blurred into a blob of VALness.

Superworm

Looks perfect to learn to foil

Klein Zack

Less Brazilians in the upper ranks means less ugly poostance surfing displayed, which translates into higher WSL viewership.

James Bickerton

Zack I don’t agree but what I think you are trying to imply is that LESS IS ( Carissa ) MOORE a phrase adopted in 1947 by architect Ludwig Mies van der Rohe ?

Mads Naeraa

The Barcelona Pavilion. I thought I had a good idea of how incredible it was, and then we went there…

James Bickerton

A continuous space; blurring inside and outside .Seeing these marvels is such a joy . Late 80s ,early 90s the NY Guggenheim Museum ( another amazing construction ) Closed for Renovation and 100 works from the likes of Picasso , Calder , Kandinsky etc etc ended up for a brief time at the Art Gallery of NSW in Sydney . I had seen photos but to see the bloody modern masterpieces up close , the games of light , Colour , composition and form literally blew me away .

Italo Post Heat Interview

Sounds like you had a real Ferris Bueller moment there

James Bickerton

As a Surfer , Never ever say no to A Day Off !

Lemon Next to the Pie

Lemon, Jen See, James Bickerton on the Chicago Art Gallery Excursion, circa 1984.

https://uploads.disquscdn.c…

janeausten

That was a cute scene;
https://uploads.disquscdn.c…

janeausten

Like the Kauffman home…when you stalk it, it seems to be surrounded by ,well, a suburb;
https://uploads.disquscdn.c…

James Bickerton

I was so disappointed when a staff member pointed out the Pyramids from a hotel in the middle of Cairo . I had imagined them in the middle of the desert but was surprised when the endless suburbs stopped at a Pizza Hut and just behind was the resting place of the Pharaohs , growing out of the sand like Stone Sunny Boys .

Toin coss

I’ve noticed a 25% increase in VAL participation at my local break this summer and a shit ton of Jeeps around too.

Phat-wan kerr

blokes on Harleys picking up plastic?

Toin coss
James Bickerton

Don’t we all love a bit on the side ( car ) ?

Phat-wan kerr

tell me its yours!

Toin coss

Sorry mate, I have an electric bike like my VAL Pals™️

Phat-wan kerr

fair enough. that seat would blister your arse anyway.

Wilbur

Urals are sooo coo! They sell a 2 wheel drive version where the wheel on the sidecar receives power. Crazy Russians.

James Bickerton

Used to be blokes on Harleys selling speed wrapped in plastic ? I wonder what is worse ? a Surf Val who rides a Harley or A Harley Val who Surfs ?

madmaxmedia

Everything from the WSL feels like a big circle jerk (attempt) because they own and run everything, but pro competitive surfing will never become big enough for there to be multiple players and perspectives (sponsors don’t count, they make it all even more generic), which is what might make it more interesting to watch.

The surfers are great and deserve a venue to shine, but everything around them is just so blah.

Low wide stinkbug stance

Have you noticed how the WSL are trying to be the surfing platform (voice of surfing) rather than just the organisation that runs pro surfing? I find it all so crass. I just want to see some comps with hot surfers ripping. I don’t care for their grandstanding on topics that have nothing to do with pro surfing. I especially don’t like it when their stance “don’t trash the waves” is built on outright hypocrisy. Yeah let’s pick up trash but go through what, 10,000 boards a year on the entire tour, of which 1/4 will be snapped and the remainder never ridden more than a handful of times. Or protest drilling in the bight but fly the tour and entourage all over the globe in planes that run on petroleum. Fuck the WSL and their dreams of becoming the voice of surfing solely so it can sold off to some schmuck so Ziff can get his money back. Fuck them.

Ross

Yeah so true. The other day not being sure when the Brazil contest started went to the world surf league site. The first few posts were all preachy environmental schlock. For the points you made above, surfers aren’t saving a world that doesn’t need saving.

janeausten

Vapid BroPledges make me vomit.

bruddah

And what happened to Samsung and Michelob Ultra Organic Piss sponsorships!?! Those seemed like way larger partnerships that just kinda… went away. Carroll gave us a little tease re: Samsung, said it was juicy… well, i’m waiting and i’m wet.

madmaxmedia

I’m still seeing the Michelob ASMR ad.

bruddah

BUt i think those might just be part of Michelob’s general media buy? Like, where’s all the other integrated, on-premise shit they were doing last year? Everywhere you looked at the comps there was Michelob this, Michelob that.

nyc surfing golden boy

is the wsl profitable? no
does this matter? no
does dirk ziff get to write this whole thing off as a loss on his taxes? yes

the wsl as a whole is a wannabe “woke” brand. the commercials depicting surfers as environmentalists, the equal gender pay scenario, etc..

surprised they didnt turn their logo as a rainbow flag for pride month or some male surfer didn’t come out of the closet this month

Phat-wan kerr

pretty sure Ziff new it was a bit of a joke when he got water boy of the year award.

James Bickerton

Water boy is wonderful . I wonder if things turn to shit if he will receive the Water Closet of the Year Award ?

Tom

What about waterboarding though? That could work I could be the facilitator of the waterboarding award – up for it

Dogsnuts

And not to be outdone zinggg!

Dogsnuts

Hahahahha. You want some water boy for that burn?

James Bickerton

Analog was sadly left behind when the world went digital . Analog waves are smooth and continuous, digital waves are stepping, square, and discrete. Analog is voice and digital is numbers . The numbers have won ….. Salman Rushdie discusses this theme in his NY Novel FURY . A very fun read for blokes over the age of 40 .

Jen See

That did not end up where I expected it to!

James Bickerton

Hi Doc , loved your latest spanking or not to spank moral work . This is the passage from Mr Rushdie that triggered the synapses when I saw Facebook ( Digital ) and Surfing ( Analog ) ;
“What is the digital equivalent of lovely? he wondered. What are the digits that encode beauty, number-fingers that enclose, transform, transmit, decode, and somehow, in the process, fail to trap or choke the soul out of it? Not because of the technology but in spite of it, beauty, that ghost, that treasure, passes undiminished through the new machines.”

Jen See

This is good writin’ from Mr. Rushdie, yes. I have not read him, perhaps I should.

James Bickerton

Bloody Hell Doc are you kidding me ? May your humble BG commentator , Me , suggest you start with his Masterwork Midnights’ Children before moving on to Fury and the rest of his work .

Mads Naeraa

Yes, do. Just don’t listen to any interviews with the man; he writes beautifully, yet comes across as a right prick.

Phat-wan kerr

have you been watching Seinfeld?

Mads Naeraa

Once, for about 5 minutes. Not my cup of tea.

Phat-wan kerr

I thought scando’s were more coffee than tea?

Mads Naeraa

True dat, especially the Swedes. Kiwi transplant, though.

James Bickerton

A bit like my relationship with. Mr Slater . I really appreciate his work in the water…..

Lemon Next to the Pie

Did you get Jean Jacques Rousseau and Jacques Cousteau mixed up again?

James Bickerton

Big Fan of the Captain of the Calypso since childhood and still long for the National Geographic generic theme before each adventure to discover the Deep Blue with Yves- Jacques and the crew . For god knows what reason I had an allergic reaction to Rousseau’s work somewhat like surfing in sewerage or eating one of those yellow tablets they used to put in public toilet troughs .

longtom

I can’t read him either.

James Bickerton

Anything particular about his style of writing or the content or does he just rub you the wrong way ? I once tried to read Jean Jacques Rousseau and he was such a fucking sook that I threw the book out the window ?

longtom

hate his style

velobwoy

Defenestration!

Jen See

I think because I did not know where to start? Idk. Okay, Midnights Children will be added to my pile pronto!

James Bickerton

I’m not one for literary awards but Midnights’ Children won the Booker of the Bookers ( now the Man Booker Prize ) in 1993 as the best Novel to win the award in its first 25 years

Jen See

Ha! Yah, award books are definitely hit and miss for me. But recommendations from actual people are good.

velobwoy

Shame (another of his earlier works) brought me to furious tears.

Low wide stinkbug stance

Get Chas to take The Satanic Verses with him next time he goes to Yemen. I once discreetly asked an Arab guy (who was probably trying to proselytise me) about the Stanic Verses and he nearly blew a gasket!

James Bickerton

I was advised by a mate who was coaching Irish Surfing in the 90s not to bring up the subject of the Troubles during a training camp at Bundoran ? So I didn’t . I suppose one might get into similar trouble mentioning Birth Control or Abortion in Alabama ?

seahound

Comp surfers on the Emerald Isle when competing overseas at European and ISA events etc represent Ireland. Like Rugby and boxing, there is no Northern Ireland or Republic of Ireland. It’s non-sectarian, no divide, just all Ireland. Surfers with other sports helping lead the way, away from the Troubles. Nice.

James Bickerton

Yep . We had at that camp in 97 surfers from the North and South , Catholics and Protestants who were trying to get on . You may know more than me on the subject but I believe at the time it was the only sporting organization of its type in Ireland ?

seahound

Yes James, boxing and rugby, hockey too, are proud all-Ireland sports. So is the GAA – the Gaeilc Athletic Association, which provides membership for all of the island of Ireland’s 32 counties, with men, women, boys and girls playing Irish football and hurling, at parish/club level, to the four provinces, and the All-Ireland championships. Fabulous organization and competitions. Cheers.

James Bickerton

Thanks for the information Wayne . Great to see people open doors rather than building walls .

Low wide stinkbug stance

I was on a backpacking bus called paddywagon in the late 90s. Ended up in Bundoran by chance and I was blown away how good the waves were. There was some place that on the map was called Crab Island that looked epic but huge.
About the Arab guy, he’d been banging on about how the Iranians were “not good muslims”, and I should have known he’d flip out when earlier i’d asked if the Ayatolah was like the pope only for him to give a scornful “we do not have popes in islam!!!!”. Anyway, I figured since the Ayatollah had issed the fatwah this was going to be a free hit for him to slag off the Iranians again. Wrong! I think he even linked Rushdie to some Zionist plot to destabilise the muslim world. No wonder those guys blow themselves up with alarming regularity.

James Bickerton

I was in Bundoran for a week and I think I saw the sun for 1/2 hour . The rain didn’t stop the waves or close the pubs though .

Phat-wan kerr

not ending up where you expected it to can also happen with blokes over 40.

Jen See

It applies to any number of scenarios, I think!

James Bickerton

You want No 1 Happy Ending for man over 40 ? It didn’t happen . Funnily enough the novel ends with the main female character having a Galileo Moment in a fictional Liliput-Blefuscu Civil War , which turns out to be based on the one that lead to Tavarua losing its monopoly over Cloudbreak .

Barrelled

Analog was purchased by Burton and transitioned to a snow only brand around 2012.

Tronald Dump

Analog was created by Burton sometime in the late 90’s – early 00’s. It was all snow for a few years before they transitioned into surf/skate, not long before Burton acquired Channel Islands. A global financial crisis ensued, and it seems that Burton had to shuffle the deck, and as a result, revert Analog back into being solely a snowboarding brand.

Phat-wan kerr

not to be confused with Burton subsidiary ANON (eyewear), Analogue is outerwear. along with Red (protection) and Gravis (footwear). giving them full control over what brands team riders were able to associate with. only a special few being allowed to sign with non Burton related brands.

James Bickerton

PwK . Were you riding for them or selling for them or both ? A true Leo – Wan Kerr ?

Phat-wan kerr

D. none of the above.

James Bickerton

Then Phat you are and Phat you shall remain ……..

Phat-wan kerr

once phat always phat. which is why I see no point in dieting. you can lose the weight but you will never lose the name.

James Bickerton

Morrissey even wrote this one for you ?
https://youtu.be/GFDzQD-LR80


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