"It really is fascist. I can't believe it."
When Nick Carroll writes I read and under the latest piece revealing the World Surf League’s fascist tendencies in restricting what the surfers participating in tomorrow’s Founders’ Cup can post on social media he wrote:
Where are all the agents in this whole shitshow? Didn’t they used to run ragged over the surf cos on a regular basis? What are they thinking in connection with the WSL and its direction?
And I thought, “Yeah! What do sport’s agents think?” So I called the best one in all of action sport, read the World Surf League’s missive to athletes and pressed record.
To take something that really should be public domain, surfing in the ocean, and putting it behind a wall is already offensive in its lack of democratic visibility. That aside, the above-the-line restriction is counter-intuitive. Surfers have their own identities. It’s not like a real league, like baseball or basketball, where everyone wears the same uniform. The surfers are individuals and have always been individuals. If they’re going to restrict the individual athletes’ participation on tour then they need to pay them a salary.
It would be like competing in X-Games and not being able to promote the partners that got you there. This letter sounds like the Olympics, rule 40, which prohibits athlete sponsors from promoting them, or athletes promoting the brands during the Olympic period. It’s problematic because it restricts the athletes from benefiting the partners who facilitate their participation.
This happening during the time of massive market contraction is a disservice to the industry that for years has encouraged participation and enthusiasm. It really is fascist. I can’t believe it.
And there you go.
The fucking bastards. I haven’t been this incensed since… since… Tom Ford sent me a pair of sunglasses that have very loose arms and they slide down my nose and make my head look extra thin.
More to come.
yes I have been to Pat’s HQ , and read his books and actually have known him for 30 years .
So you have judged his business , on overweight employees , didn’t like his second book, and falsely claim their certification practices are compromised…wow you must be the love child of Mother Theresa!
Of course you are aware that Yvon does not run the day to day , he reviews every year how the Co is travelling , and every 5-7 years , replaces the CEO to keep his philosophies as the foundation of his business. A couple of years ago at the AGM , he announced a profit of $56M , family kept 2m and the rest was to be dished out to worthy projects and he also tried to limit growth of the Co to 10% a year…….
I can only imagine that your preferred brand is Slater Surfboards and OK clothing , each to his own I am just a bit old school ..
I’m not sure where you come off with this hatred for Patagonia, it is pathetic. I’m not Liz Clark, I’m not even a women. Nice try though, and I will not be engaging you anymore no matter what. Piss off!
Oh great wise one, please explain the Farce ,Patagonia , and why Yvon Chouinard is pretentious ?
Go ahead, expose me, so I can laugh at your pretentiousness. Claim it! Is this a big heat for you? Need the points? Title race? The struggle is real and I truly feel for ya. Matter of fact, I have purchased a big foam finger just for you, cause you’re number 1!
First and foremost, I’m not for furthering the sport, nor anything I’m close to. Second, I’m in no way shape or form affiliated with Patagonia, although that would be rad, simply not the case. Thirdly, I don’t really care to continue with this trifle. Good day!
Wow, surfers are the worst. Might choose a hatchet next time too unravel your intellectual thicket laced with hypocrisy. Calling me pretentious and jumpy seems a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.
Guarantee me any troll on this thread would stroke off the goat to completion for an hour at this wave. Every “Purist” on this thread is as much a relic as Chandler. Yes….you’ve all been compared to a fictitious soul surfer from a 80’s Hollywood surf film. Gregory Harrison is laughing at the irony from his grave…… wait, he’s dead, right??
Why the hell is it called the FOUNDERS CUP OF SURFING? Who founded what? Surely the founders of surfing would be something to do with Hawaii or something loosely related to the origins of surfing. Why do I hear rolling waves when I looked at the WSL feed while it was on a break and there were no waves anywhere? I was also going to try and write something extremely horrible to try and get some spy sunglasses, but then I realized that I can’t be bothered, plus they probably wouldn’t fit me anyway because I have a medium small sized head, and all sunglasses seem to come in Medium Large or Large sizes as standard.
Yeah. Founders Cup of Surfing Sucks it has brought me down to the level of posting comments on beachgrit.
Sophie be all like…
https://uploads.disquscdn.c…
What ever happened with Purps?
whatever happened to Komunity ?
What ever happened to K-Grip?
Who would the ’89 world surfing champ be hanging with at the founders cup? Laird? The ’88 world surfing champ?
She is smart.
We all know that surfing lost its identity some time ago. This just confirms it’s officially over. Was fun while it lasted.
I got a Slater cymatic here, will that do?
This is the equivalent of a baseball stadium hanging up signs in the bathroom stating “no farting at the urinals”. Fucking bullshit.
Fucking hilarious , creating an insular surfing environment , with KS and Ziffy at opposing ends of the business spectrum , one who is a money maker and the other a money loser ( Never had a successful business yet?)
Promises that the KS Wave pool will be the saviour of us all or reality is maybe these 2 are the anti-Christs for surfing , destroy everything that surfing was till now and then rebuild a new age of poolies ah the smell of sweet fascism mixed with Lemmingmore’s Parfum du jour , Merde , ah La Vache!
if kelly has never had a successful business, does it make him presidential material?
Im sure most rich people after they lose money, then consider themselves as Philanthropists !
The Fuck Off money rich never really lose money.
Its just a write down for paying no tax 12months later when they then make a shit tonne.
nah, just the stereotypical rich bastard
Firewire is VERY successful
Seen the balance sheet?
looks successful , but when cash deals are going around where you can get 40% off the wholesale price , reeks of problems , that last batch of Slaters were terrible quality..not many in the water now!!
Bad batch!
Firewire is very successful and given his series of misguided business ventures,he’s invested personal finances into building this wave. The board forums on social media with their anti firewire slander have proven that his business model has been a serious industry disrupter Maurice. Let’s state facts that are in fact “facts”. Kelly’s money has been earned from his surfing accomplishments, and he is reinvesting in the furthering (for better or worse) of the expansion of the sport. A naysaying relic pointing to the past (yourself) does nothing more than serve as a reminder of our (surfers) refusal to embrace change and evolution. Let’s shit on the guys like Quikbong who have destroyed The fabric of surf culture and branded us under the umberella of “action sports”. Like I am to be bundled with bmx and Moto guys by publicly held companies expanding into categories for the sake of capitalism, and reporting to the shareholders rather than the sub culture that was once unique and irreverent. U know what I’m saying Maurice??
oh FFS Capt Pee , Firewire’s whole business model is consignment not sales (is that slander or the truth?) , and yes disrupted the surfboard business , by driving brands out of stores , and replacing them with Cheaply made surfboards at high prices. The Slater Brand has fallen back quite away , as the quality shit and the fake carbon on the Asian boards did them no favour as a lot broke. The best news is that with Firewire/Slater prices , custom designer surfer shapers can offer much superior quality , and designs. Kelly does not invest his own money , he has a Finance group of people out of Point Dume and has a bit of a gravy train with Ziffy.
I embrace change and evolution , in every design I do , test new designs in every way possible , I doubt there would be anyone who invests as much time and energy into future materials /pushing boundaries , but you wouldn’t know because I am not a mainstream brand anymore , as the mainstream will not embrace change , just look at the current state of surfboard design on tour same shit for decades ….I am not a naysayer , I actually live in the real world , and try and explain what a mediocre sport surfing has become , because of the acceptance of mediocrity as the new cutting edge , as Kelly is doing!
First off momo, the “carbon” that everyone claims firewire was claiming was a design aesthetic added to Kelly’s boards to hide which boards were center stringered and which were parabolic or alternative material so Kelly could form an unbiased opinion in testing. It was the shapers that anointed them “carbon” and while it may be a bit confusing, the Slater boards like the sci fi actually do have carbon! And your decision to not be a “mainstream” brand anymore is your decision. But the fact you chime in on things like this still makes me question your desire for relevance and if it was indeed a “choice”. You still firmly plant yourself on the stairs at Bells every year, to be seen during the camera pans. But why do you choose to slander rather than shore your own innovations with the greater surf community? Next, let’s move to Kelly’s investment group. Would he be invited to the final table with no money to contribute to the pot? Doubtful. Firewire has been the number 1 selling board stateside for sometime. To say Slater Designs is going backwards would either be a regional perspective, or an ignorant one. The Gamma has been a top seller stateside as has his new cymatic. And I agree about the tour not embracing change and forward thought in material and design. Channel Islands is the same and bleeding out with sales and relevance. So there we agree my bearded amigo.
OK so what’s your opinion of consignment as a business principal?
I have seen a lot of K’s boards over the years , a lot that are PU/Polyester made to look like an EPS/Carbon construction , have seen the boards that come out of XTR which have real carbon , but the Asian made ones have a laminate carbon strip , no stringer and that’s why a lot break and crease..
if the Board works for Kelly , there are very few surfers who surf off their front foot like Kelly , so his boards do not work for the general masses , so him testing boards is a bit of a red herring!
My relevance is a lot more than commenting on mediocrity in surfing , I work very hard behind the scenes on a lot of community issues and also help a lot behind the scenes in surfing…..
As for the stairs at Bells , maybe you would do it for the cameras , but it’s the best place to watch , it’s part of my surfing culture .Having competed at Bells in 1971 onwards , it’s my local break so I know more about conditions etc than most, and I help all the coaches with the changing conditions , plus the coaches are all my old mates , so it’s sorta our inner sanctum…..plus hanging anywhere else is just shit!
Kelly lends his name to projects , and gets % ownership for his involvement , very little of his money!
I travel Stateside 3 times a year , and talk to the best retailers in the USA , plus still go to France and Japan twice a year , so I have a pretty relevant view on what’s selling or not ….FW has made a bit of a comeback , but Slater bds sat after the 3 rd run…..check out craigs list etc and see how many s/h Slater/SciFi’s …how many diamond nose Vaders or round nose Omni’s do you see in the water?
Yes CI have had their day , and FW/Slater is being kept alive the Hype and dubious business practices!!
So you believe that seasonal visits are inline with the entirety of the surf market? The reality is that consignment is the very name of the game in surf hard good’s via traditional brick and mortar. The emergence of ecommerce and amazon has left your “top” surf shops scrambling and failing to evolve to the built in consumer driven retail locations they occupy, and create a point of differentiation with knowledgeable staff who live and breath the culture. Rather firewire and CI, Chilli, rusty, etc, started floating consignment. And by the way, consignment only works when product sells. And demand is largely the factor into what they stock in shelves. But to say there is no appetite for Slater designs is redicous. Vader’s, and omnis are super old and have been replaced with upgrades. You know how many lost baby buggies are on there? They’ve been replaced with newer upgraded models. Very few withstand a shelflife exceeding a year. And that is self inflicted by the puking Ogbuehi too many models from so many brands. I’m not new to this either my friend, I will measure dicks with you in relation to surf retail, I will gracefully concede on surfboard craftsmanship.
I just get to speak the best retailers , the suppliers , and the glass shops , so I see trends before most as I have been around so long , that my point of reference for what’s going on, is 5 decades of first hand knowledge.
Little bit of history here for you , when Burton Bought CI , he came in aggressively with a program with the retailers that for 40% of their rack space , CI would give 6 mths credit offer free surfboards for retail staff etc….Firewire responded with consignment , I actually met with Mark Price 10 years ago in Japan and had a go at him, so when Firewire came onto the market with consignment , the other big brands you mentioned did also , so CI went to 12 mths credit…..Retailers could not refuse the deal and at the same time the big clothing brands were and are doing sale or return…..
The downside to all of this retailers were stuck with stuff that the consumer no longer wanted and that’s why there was a crash in surf retail 2 years ago…
As for ongoing popularity , why does the Hypto Krypto still sell 8 years later or the CI Black beauty …..when you talk upgraded models , more often than not it’s just a manufacturing change , and a new logo , doesn’t seem to be increase in performance , nothing new , just recycled retros!
Maurice, your insight is flawed. First off, CI offered extended terms and due to the overproduction of various models, they were heavily rotating stagnant product every time they released a new model. Often 3 at a time, and leaving them with a nasty backlog of yellowing boards in random size runs. Currently sitting on over 2300 boards in their carp warehouse. Burton utilized their shit business model in snow, and began offering 12% discounts to retailers who agreed to bring in grip, boardbags, and clothing, thinking it would be a margin builder. The black beauty is NOT the least bit relevant at retail, in fact, their top selling model now is still the sampler. The OG flyer gaining traction, even though it’s a retread. The reason the hypto remains relevant is that it is a user friendly board, any account can access and anyone can ride. Curious to hear who the “top retailers” are you are speaking with in the us.
It’s not insight , I watched as I was working in the USA at the time with Lost , and I was put in contact with every retailer that Lost has , started a personal relationship with most owners/managers who dealt with Lost when they were at 14 ,000 units pa…..I did tradeshows with the Lost crew from Agenda to Surf Expo , so am not sure of your sources , but mine are first hand and I still am in contact with them…
Burton tried his Snow business model , to take over the surfboard business , but didn’t realize that there are a lot of small reputable makers out there and with the departure of Al Merrick , he tried to grind the market down as he could afford to lose money as he would then own the market. He offered 6 mths credit , which went to 12 mths , if boards went brown they would swap them over ( 2300 in stock?,Wow)
didn’t work, CI are in rapid decline , Lost went down but has bounced back and a lot of the other brands are barely surviving….
Except for Firewire/Slater who get the sales through consignment , as no-one else can provide commercial terms , where there is no sale, , no money in stock ….great for bricks and mortar retailers!
why do you say the black beauty is not relevant at retail as its the board I see most down our way?
You would be hard pressed to find more than a token 1 or 2 black beauty’s at any shop stateside. Again, the amount of models manufacturers are pumping out leaves the retailer walking away from some great shapes only to chase what’s new. I see retailers coast to coast, and guess what, ask a retailer whats “working” for them in store on a Monday and they will tell you “x”. Someone else comes in and asks the same question they’ll answer “y”. I see it every day. There are zero shops that carry exclusively firewire. And the biggest and best stores like surfride, hss, real water sports, jacks, brave new world, etc, firewire is in the racks with every other brand and outselling them. The consumer has no clue what the terms are on any board. 80% still thinks there is a keystone margin built in for the retailers. Look, I’m for an even playing field, I go so far as to boycott amazon even though my life would be easier! Haha! But let’s call a spade a spade, even Biolos had to dig into the pockets of La Jolla group to fund his business, and firewire had a plan and executed, and it continues to work well for them and the retailers. So what’s the issue? Are retailers complaining? Consumers? No, entitled shapers who refuse to evolve are the ones kicking up dirt. (Not a jab at u) I do have this information 1st hand as well, but because you are who you are, I think on some topics you’re getting told what they want you to hear.
yes but they retail direct the black beauty and a lot of good surfers say it’s their best model , even Connor Coffin says its the best model he’s ridden at CI..
There are only really 3-4 brands that have the marketing and the finance to cut each others throats , and that’s why you see Firewire/Slater/CI/Lost , a bit of Rusty…..eg all boards at ET/ surf are only on consignment or very long trading terms , including DHD’s/JS/Chile…..RWS buys their boards so they total control over their stock and are cashed up to buy..
As for level playing field , it’s not , but maybe that’s the way of the USA , and why more surfers are buying direct and shunning the traditional bricks and mortar , because its all the same product , and tha’s why 21/2 years agon there was a huge downturn in the surf retail business and 50% downturn in S/bd sales…..
Matt and Mike left the La Jolla group about 6-7 years ago…and rebuilding their business again……
The issue is that surfing sales are still declining ,even though the economies are doing well , surfing Industry keeps on losing money , sales are still going down , but more surfers than ever at the beach…..so when does it bottom out?
Another thought Momo, after watching a few waves of that founders cup, it was shit. Boring as hell and failed to keep my attention. Mind you I will stream a fucking QS1500 all day if it’s live, but couldn’t bring myself to watch more than 20-30 minutes of the pool. Do I want to surf it? Yes! Do I want to watch another wave from it? No. I’ve had my fill.
There hasn’t been a phrase invented to say how upset I am about this.
Oh wait, there has:
“I couldn’t care less”
Amen. I won’t be tuning in, not for one second. It’s full on spring time in sunny Florida and even if it rains, I’m not watching. I have suffered over the footage of Kelly and his rich pals enough.
yeah, i know tom. sent me the same pair of them shit sunnies. asshole.
Pro surfers are “individuals and have always been individuals”- you can tell by their energy drink ball caps and carefully worded social media posts. So individualistic!
yeah Charlie…..this is firing me up.
https://youtu.be/_px4BcV88BE
I’m feeling it!