Nature is metal.
It was revealed here, sometime ago, that “man-eating” Great White sharks have recently vacated one of their favorite haunts in South Africa, stumping scientists and frustrating divers hoping to catch a glimpse of toothy death. Where could they have gone? Why? Well, just released footage contains possible answers as it shows two killer whales bullying a 12-foot long monster, toying with its frazzled emotions, pushing it this way and that, fun-making, likely, and taunting before biting its tail clean off, according to one witness.
Per the The New York Post:
A pair of orcas were filmed apparently hunting a great white shark off the coast of South Africa. The footage was filmed by marine tour guide Donavan Smith, who was leading tourists in a boat near Knysna, about 250 miles from Cape Town. “This is amazing. This is special stuff,” Smith can be heard saying in the 2½-minute video, which he posted on his Instagram and YouTube accounts last week. “There’s a big great white here in the water. They come and they hunt great whites.” The clip shows two killer whales swimming and peeking their dorsal fins several feet from the tour group. Meanwhile, a nearly 12-foot great white takes cover underwater, near the tour boat’s bow. Despite the “big, monster great white,” Smith tells his guests that orcas are known to feed on sharks. “It’s a shark they are hunting,” he says before the footage ends, and before the shark’s fate is revealed. “They actually bite the tails off [of the great whites] from the back.”
And I must admit to being disappointed in the cameraman’s sense of pay-off for it would have been wonderful to see the carnal frenzy, tail-less shark swimming trying to paddle with its little fins etc. but I suppose its good to exercise the imagination from time to time too.
While we’re imagining, what if Killer Whales develop a taste for surfer meat? Think upon the terror of being slowly circled, played with, harassed before having legs eaten clean off. Disturbing and here is a poem I wrote for us to ponder more deeply.
Some say the world will end by Great White,
Some say by Killer Whale.
From what I’ve tasted of might.
I hold with those who favor White.
But if it had to perish in a flail,
I think I know enough of abject terror,
To say that for destruction Whale
Is also fairer
And would avail.
https://mobile.abc.net.au/n…
“SINISTERLY LARGE” ??
Sinisterly??? Now, that’s a joke, init?
At almost four metres, it’s a click before being called just a medium size shark –of any kind.
The title in itself tells me the writer doesn’t know much about the species…
You can size it up as you wish. If one said humans eat cows, given that overall, far more than their livers are consumed when they’re eaten, that would be far better descriptive. Orcas consuming only the liver is somewhat misleading when one is broadly saying orcas “feed on sharks,” especially that thus far this is a recent phenomenon from a few pods. They’ve never been documented biting off tails, either. They turn the sharks over to immobilize and take the liver only. Orca packs do this larger whales, too, mostly calves, killing massive animals just for their tongues, wasting the rest. I find that an important clarification.
Your a feisty little minx, aren’t ya?
It’s you’re. Not your. Since you’re calling others names and playing emoji police, then you might as well check yourself.
These sharks are much smaller than those in the Pacific. This footage doesn’t show much.
These “massive” “man-eaters” were probably 3m at best so they were juveniles. Exaggerating headlines makes for poor journalism.
My original post didn’t go through as intended as my connection sputtered. Feel better now? Get your Prozac.
Not all orcas do this. Just a few specialized packs that gang up upon a single GW and turn them upside down to immobilize them. Sharks go into a trans when flipped upwards. Those same orcas do this to other shark species, too. If the orcas disrupted seasonal feeding of GWs, the seal population would swell to imbalanced numbers. Ecologically, the GWs need to be there. Conversely, orcas could not possibly get true nourishment, especially amongst a pod of two or three or more, on a single liver. But they treat-eat. They’ll kill blue, grey, humpback and other whale calves just to eat their tongues. There’s a reason they call them killers. They’re far from the lovable Shamu dolls. GWs are performing their balanced roles well. Orcas are more or less marauders whom leave carcasses all over the place. GWs sometimes are part of the dead whale scavenging crews, which confirms their ecological importance.
I agree, we should definitely cull Orcas.
Or at least monitor or countermeasure the isolated, maverick serial killers.
Ankle bracelets for Orcas? Maybe they could give them a zap when approaching seal populations … re-train their natural behaviours.
Perhaps some vastly enhanced reading comprehension skill could refine your flailing grasp of the commentary. The dynamic between orcas and the seal population was never cited. You invented that. Pay attention this time.
The actual dynamic was the GW to seal dynamic which could go drastically imbalance the seal population. If orcas are killing GWs for livers, it disrupts a protected species which are necessary to that ecological dynamic. Your pathetic attempt at humor only exposes your hopeless neural traction.
Haha got your attention. Had a look at your recent comments and there’s a common thread of engagement and bellitlement. It’s almost like you’re using these fora to prop up a fragile ego; welcome to the family.
Preposterous assessment. Belligerent belittling is your MO as witnessed by “ankle brackets for orcas.” I’m simply making scientific statements and ones leaning towards both balance and compassion. You engaged with your now infamous mistranslated puns. If there’s an “almost as like” inference to egotism, you’d find evidence of that quicker with a reread of your comments, respectfully. Not mine.
My issue with your comments is this notion that issue that we need to interfere with natural processes to maintain an existing balance
That natural process may not have the luxury of its own acute trends given the effect of mankind has had upon it. And I’m not suggesting culling of anything. Those were your misplaced words. Select orcas killing ecologically necessary sharks just to snack on livers is far from the normal natural process. It’s a new phenomenon. Countermeasures (whatever they might be) need not be lethal.
If Orcas are adding to anthropogenic pressures than we should be addressing those rather than natural interactions. And I’d be interested in seeing the evidence that this is a recent phenomenon.
Any ideas as to how to address acute anthropogenic pressures? My premise was countermeasures if there’s in fact a disruption of ecological balance. That’s synonymous with your statement.
And if you have any indication, credible witnesses, reports or otherwise which remotely contend that they’ve seen these globally repeated occurrences of missing white shark livers from predation of white sharks from orcas, please do come forward with it. Shark biologists would surely welcome seeing that.
So you got fuck all then?
A credulous pretender. I knew it.
Don’t worry, introspection is healthy
Nothing healthy about reactionary profanity while pretending to be someone you’re not. Cut and paste artists always learn the hard way.
So glad i read this BEFORE watching the clip… Knowing that the actual attack and bitting off of the sharks tail ISN’T shown kinda makes it not worth to watch.
Regardless I find this sort of thing Fascinating.
Are you a shark pain fetishist?
Looking for a +1?
What would Mrs Smith say?
Orca find parts of the GW shark a bit a delicacy. They don’t eat the whole shark just specific yummy bits like kidney’s
It’s only the shark liver they want. And that’s not a good thing to kill sharks for livers and larger whales just for their tongues. Disrupts ecosystem for treats.
By definition an ecosystem is a biological community and it’s interaction with it’s physical environment. Sharks and Orcas have been in coexistence for millennia. The idea that biota that exhibit typical behaviours will result in disruption outside of ordinary variation is classic anthropomorphism.
I’ve already responded to you; your same utterance, elsewhere in this discussion.
Yes that’s right, Liver Lunches are “one of” the delicacy’s they enjoy and yes the tongue of some whales also, and guess what, sometimes kidneys, quite possibly it seems (schools still out on this. not out for peer review yet) fed to the juveniles within some pods, particularly those who frequent the Southern Coast of Australia. Hopefully I’ve helped you a little more.
White sharks are protected species for good reason; they’re ecological necessary for balancing of the pinniped population overall, particularly in select areas. A relatively new, undocumented frequency until recently in all the concentrated studies of both species in these areas phenomenon, is certainly causing concern with biologists.
Kidneys? Have yet to see that documented. It’s irrelevant at this point, but primarily, they target the livers, stomachs, and testes.
Shark livers have very high concentrations of oil and fats. They are also very large compared to other animals. This potentially makes a great white’s liver one of the best sources of quick energy in the ocean.
Orcas seem to have learned this and are targeting sharks specifically for their nutrient-rich livers. An increased frequency needs to be monitored.
There’s a lot yet to be documented, most likely why i replied “schools out” ? There’s some exciting research here on the South Coast of WA particularly on the Bremer Canyon. A lot of effort in a variety of areas including the cetaceans, especially Orca, and guess what ? We are learning new and interesting things each and every season it’s awesome, 10’s of thousands of photos but still quite a bit that has never been documented previously and possibly a lot of observations that wont be without the funding to get the right people, in the right place, at the right time, with the right equipment etc, looks like its possible you would understand that. I’m really fortunate to be up close and personal in this space through involvement and by association and the one thing i do know, is we know so little, but are learning so much.
New developments every season. That’s superb. By funding to the right people, you mean apart from the scientific (university or Institute) level? If there’s new data every year, it should be possible for sanctioned studies or grants. One should expect that soon. Thank you for this very valuable information.
No, i mean especially at the Scientific level. Our most comprehensive research effort to date has only been possible due to the philanthropy of Schmidt Ocean Institute. Beyond that we have a handful of researches scrounging for funding when they can and a couple opportunistic amateurs who’s main objective is to sell documentary’s.There simply isn’t the funding available. The Most recent expedition to the Canyon by MV Falkor was manned by some globally respected movers and shakers in the marine research space so hopefully as a result of some of their observations more interest and funding.
I see. What do you suppose would help acquire the needed funding?
More philanthropic infusions to SOI?
Or private funding for research projects?
What would help acquire funding? Re-naming Orca “Sea Pandas” may help?
Less competition for available funding,continued good will of philanthropists and encouraging continued interest of relevant industry stakeholders.
Kidnapping with ransom and blackmail may also serve a purpose?
I think there’s already an abundance of people that love orcas just as though they were sea pandas (not always realizing just how fitting that “killer” title truly is), but funding for special projects through institutional and private pledging is surely your best likelihood. I’ll save your posting and see if I can find any funding allocation meeting your model. I’m in that sector.
Yes, and a bear who eats just the berries of of a plant is disrupting the ecosystem because it’s not eating the entire bush, stems, leaves, and roots. Just eating the berries is disrupting the ecosystem for treats. Got it.
Asshole bears.
It’s not just the amount of what it is eaten. It’s the troubling concern with such new frequency where they’re specifically targeting larger animals for relatively minor nutritional value. This means that with this trend, many sharks would need to be killed simply to satisfy an urge for quick energy from livers (sometimes other organs). Like any new phenomenon, it’s disconcerting to biologists, naturally.
Of course, someone of your immature, quarreling demeanor would lack the comprehension for all this anyway. It shows.
How do you know it’s a new phenomenon??? Because you declared so?
Minor nutritional value? Do you know how big a shark liver is compared to other fish? If you were half as educated about sharks as you think you are, you would know they are huge compared to the other organs and make up a big percentage of a sharks body weight.
And you may think I’m immature, but I think you are a dipshit.
It’s a new phenomenon, the acute frequency, as published by every major scientific source known to us and is being now specifically studied by shark biologists around the globe.
Unsure if you’ll play link cop here, too, just as you felt you needed to do over one emoji, but there’s a fast amount of public information out there, even for simpletons like yourself.
National Geographic:
“In October 1997, tourists in a whale-watching boat off the Farallon Islands, near San Francisco, witnessed two killer whales attack a great white shark and consume its liver. Other whites have washed up on South Africa since then.
“It was, at that time, the first documented sighting of killer whales eating white sharks. The incident sparked new lines of research. While it’s possible that great whites may have been part of the killer whale’s diet well before then, the rising frequency of the attacks is a new development.”
Scientists believe that this is a special pod which have learned the art of ganging up on a white shark and turning them over to force them in a trans.
“It’s fascinating that these two whales seemed to have kind of honed this to perfection where it’s almost a scientific extraction of the liver,” “like an operation with a scalpel.”
“Sharks are susceptible to something called “tonic immobility.” When they are held upside down in the water, sharks become paralyzed because they require water to move across their gills while they swim in order to breathe. Thus, the orca was essentially able to drown the shark before feeding on it.”
PUBLISHED JULY 16, 2019.
Look it up yourself.
And it’s clear you’re immature. Are you ever. With each drivel posting you affirm that.
I can’t find any reference to an increasing frequency of attacks. Could you post a link?
I tried:
https://www.google.com/amp/…
And
https://www.nature.com/arti…
I think this is the article 2c is looking for:
https://esajournals.onlinel…
There’s no secret to the sudden frequency. There’s numerous scientific articles from shark biologists. Also, the ecological implications.
Your own link offers further analogy.
“The Ecological Society of America.”
Journal
These events raised a number of important questions, most notably:
Why would killer whales begin targeting sharks in False Bay after years of apparent co‐existence?
Why was only the liver of each individual consumed, while the rest of the carcass was discarded?
What potential impact could there be on the ecosystem of False Bay if these predation events become more frequent?
This may answer the question of why killer whales would suddenly target sharks in False Bay after years of apparent co‐existence. While prey switching by mammal specialists is not impossible, it is more likely that a new sub‐group of killer whale arrived in the bay, one which habitually preys upon sharks such as the flat‐toothed morphotype described above. The consistent predation technique of breaking the pectoral girdle and removing the liver through a rupture in the abdominal wall further points to the arrival of a shark‐specialist ecotype of killer whale in False Bay.”
The paper suggests the presence of a previously undocumented sub-group of Orca at False Bay is responsible for the attacks, and that these Orcas are highly transient.
A better question may be: why are normally deep ocean predators feeding in shallower waters.
Whether their presence will lead to significant and sustained changes in near shore ecological communities can only be answered by further studies, but if it’s in response to human induced pressures, then address the pressures rather than the response otherwise you’ll be artificially maintaining a system and that’s not sustainable in the longer term.
It remains to be seen. They think at this point that this is the work of rogue, maverick serial killers ganging up on the whites. Problem is that it’s not just whites (whites less frequent than the others) but also six-gill and others. And addressing human-induced pressure is always rather challenging.
So … we have a shared understanding … you’re stoopid and smelly?
Beyond the science, I have no interest or idea of what your pet phrases amount to. You have this peculiar bipolar-type disposition (from one actually attempting a scientific discussion to Beavis and Butthead juvenile comments) to where your comments seem as though you’re sharing your account with a delinquent child.
I’m easily bored
No emojis, no exceptions.
And like I said before, you may think I’m immature, but now I KNOW that you are a certified grade A, class 5, DIPSHIT.
Maybe you can look up the definition of that in your National Geographic Library.
I looked it up:
Certified dipshit. Synonymous with immature imbecile.
Your less than aesthetically pleasing mugshot is there alongside your name.
Given the infrequency of the attacks, their speacilised nature (almost surgical removal of a single organ) and that sharks know to flee the area … it would seem unlikely that is a new behaviour. Much more likely it’s a subset of the orca population moving through different areas. Natural systems are highly stochastic and I am highly pessimistic of the need and efficacy of intervening directly. Much better to address changing climate and over fishing, which are likely driving changes to migratory and predatory patterns.
Oh and you’re stoopid and smelly …
The sharks are staying away from the islands for the rest of the feeding season even after the killer whales left, sometimes staying away as long as a year. That’s problematic.
High trophic-level consumers, or top predators, play an important ecological role through top-down forcing. Regulation of prey density via direct consumption by predators is the most common form of top-down control documented in ecological literature. Yet there is also increasing recognition for non-lethal or behaviorally mediated mechanisms, which can similarly shape ecosystem function and structure.
In marine ecosystems predator-prey interactions and resulting ecological effects have received relatively more focus, whereas much less is known about the interactions among top consumers, which likely have similar top-down implications for marine ecosystems.
https://www.nature.com/arti…
Anyone who finds pleasure in the destruction of a protected species as the great white is….. is an asshole. Probably some messed up liberal woke idiot….
Wait… you totally confused me. The liberal woke idiots love destruction of nature?
I doubt it’s the liking of empathetic liberals who protect life and ecology. Those taking pleasure in this are the opposite of liberals.
Too cool all hail the killer whale.
I wonder if they ate the liver in the end.
Great footage
The hunter— becomes the hunted…..
The top of the sea list is not sharks it’s orcas. Whites scatter when orca groups show up.. the one thing that’s strange is they kill sharks but only eat the biggest shark organ the liver. Leave the carcass to the scavangers.
Its desert for them, after they’ve had their regular meal………
A GW’s liver can weigh up to 600lbs and has a high fat count.. it’s also supposed to taste fantastic to a killer whale they say!
GW’s are supposed to be really scared of killer whales to the point that many will not show up at seasonal seal hunts due to killer whales that have learned the GW’s seasonal feeding locations and show up for a liver meal!!
Wonder how they sauteed the onions to go with the liver.? Lol!!
Any notion of what one believes the taste preferences of orcas to be is purely speculating. If the orcas disrupted seasonal feeding of GWs, the seal population would swell to imbalanced numbers.
Obviously you do not read much on this topic or you would understand more!
To the contrary, I do read much upon this topic and am funding special new research on this given this new frequency phenomenon as an ecological concern.
They’re eating the livers due to high fat and nutrient content. Essentially, quick energy. They’re also eating shark testes. Orcas kill larger whales calves just for their tongues. They’re not called killers for nothing.
Scientists believe these are just a few rogue individuals whom travel for pinnipeds and other whales whom chance upon the whites. They’re doing to other sharks, too.
Perhaps your reading requires attention.
So thinking that your research has to not uncovered this document then ..
(Sorry I cannot copy and paste into this reply.. so Google this article)
“Killer whales redistribute white shark foraging pressure on seals”
Yes, many of us have read that article and others like it. In fact, the links are all posted elsewhere in this discussion. The frequency is a new phenomenon. Scientists are involved in this research in various countries.
So then you can say that my original comment is not far off the mark then?? I based it on research like this ..
I know it is still early in the research game, but influences from other factors (killer whales) can disrupt ones food source.
Remember, John, I didn’t disagree with the clear fact that these maverick orca pods are indeed disrupting the ecological feeding between whites and pinnipeds. I was only making a statement about us knowing that orcas think shark livers “taste fantastic.” We have no evidence of that. The studies show they’re doing it for the fat and nutrient supply. A quick energy boost. Like a bottle of “5 o’clock Energy” for humans. On the new frequency phenomenon adversely affecting the normal white habits, that’s clear.
But there is no evidence it’s a new phenomenon, only that it’s been undocumented until recently.
Edit: or possibly that they are hunting in shallower waters than traditionally.
Disagreed. We’re not referring to the dynamic. We’re referring to the sudden frequency, documented or otherwise. If it were happening with this frequency in the past, it would have been surely detected. Only parts are eaten. The remaining bodies always wash ashore.
The immediate concern, our premise, is the ecological impact of this frequency by these rogue individuals doing this. If it’s stirring whites (and six gills and others) away from their balanced role in pinniped population in select areas, it’s duly cause for advanced studies. That’s where the funding is going now. I should know.
*rogue* individuals. A value laden term, not supported by the literature.
You need to be more careful with your language.
You come to your senses later in this discussion. Long overdue.
A “rogue” is generally an individual, or small number of individuals, whose behaviour differs from the norm. Englebrecht et al (2019) postulate that the near-shore predation of sharks was due to a flat-toothed morho-type of Orca that predominately occur offshore and specialise in higher-order fish and sharks.
This is not a behavioural change in a small number of Orcas, but more likely a change in predation patterns of sub-type of Orcas; i.e. it’s not “rogue” behaviour.
Perhaps you too need to read and comprehend words (sic) better and process what’s been presented.
“A “rogue” is generally an individual, or small number of individuals, whose behaviour differs from the norm.”
Precisely. And that’s exactly what this is. There’s specialists studying this and they’ve identified actual individuals whom are traveling in multiple areas where these events are happening. They’re the same, yes ROGUE individuals, Billy.
“This is not a behavioural change in a small number of Orcas…”
Yes, it is. That’s exactly what it is. You’re simply not being very attentive and we’re repeating the same content already covered, some of which by articles which YOU have already posted or extracted from.
That’s funny because I quoted directly from the article yet you continue to make assertions without backing them up.
Over to you …
I’ve amply backed up everything I’ve said. I’ve been keenly attuned to this topic since 2015.
And you inferring others are belittling given your rather telling history is quite curious. By your own admission, you “get bored easy” and make snide remarks like “ankle bracelets” on orcas and in the most bizarre utterance of this whole page…”So you got fuck all then?” reveal significant indicators of something within. Don’t be guilty of the pot calling the kettle black, respectfully.
Sure … my remarks were in response to the condescending attitude I felt were coming through in your comments … but we have since managed to engage in kinda respectful debate, have we not?
You also need to appreciate that Beach Grit is like the Viz or Mad magazines of previous generations (or Tracks mag in the late 70’s, early 80’s); a fun, irreverent community. Chas’s shark articles are deliberately provocative and should not be taken seriously. I generally don’t come here for serious debate … but this has been interesting … kinda.
Your boredom, your quarreling jabs (“let’s cull orcas” when no one assumed that but you) and incoherent, profane questions are all on you. Let’s be honest.
Furthermore, you chronically antagonize by suggesting I need to refrain from conjecture when your entire display is exactly that, my sourcing somehow chronically missed.
And yes, I’ve noticed the lack of intellectual acumen in the feature presenter. I don’t follow their pages. I refer only to our exchanges and you missing pertinent information already significantly presented coupled with your challenges for sourcing despite that preexisting content. You are either not reading or you’re attempting to suffice your boredom by reducing our intellectual discussion with spouts of lowgrade satire.
All I ask is that you critically review your thinking, because some of your statements aren’t supported by logic (countermeasures) or the available science (rogue orcas).
All my statements are not only fully supported by logic, but are also completely in unison with the leading science on each facet. Moreover, I’ve fully presented that science via numerous linked sources by biological experts on the topic to support those assessments amply and routinely.
You’ve done nothing of that sort. Instead, in an antagonist syndrome, you make statements in vast contrast with that science. That’s particularly curious as you’ve been presented more than enough to have redirected your flailing pattern.
Once the science is there, measures are always considered. It’s the scientific way. If anything else disrupted ecosystems to this degree, measures would have been already explored. Clear examples are unmistakable around the world. But with the lovable Shamu, delicacy will be imperative. Much of the public is ignorant of how they get their name. And the rogue orcas factor is not only scientific fact, but it’s been shown to you vividly.
You’re just thick, inattentive and would rather bicker than read. You’ve made a number of abstract examples making that abundantly clear. Your profile icon confirms plenty.
I disagree, you continue to make assertions as if a statement is evidence enough. The few links you have provided are not peer review (though they are a reasonable summary of the science by credible authors).
You do not appear to be critically reflecting upon what I am saying and reviewing it against the references I have provided.
IMO, you lack an understanding of the scientific process.
How about we agree to disagree?
No assertions. Peer-reviewed facts.
How about you providing science on others being “Oh and you’re stoopid and smelly …” and list of other petty, immature, juvenile utterances you make? But now you’re mister science. Please.
It is YOU whom is seemingly incapable of “critically reflecting upon what I am saying and reviewing it against the references I have provided.” Chronically, incessantly. My science is demonstrably leaps and bounds more on process than you have shown remotely possible with you. This page discussion is indisputable proof of that.
Yes, let’s agree to disagree. You can go conjure up “healthy introspection” with others more willing to play clinical psychologist with your banter, most respectfully.
But that makes orcas the Apex predator. It knows what to eat and not eat and let’s the pack get some. They are a social group of killers that sharks fear
True. But remember, orcas are almost twice the size (30′) of the average GW (15-18′), significantly more intelligent and in packs of at least two or more. Then they gang up to turn the white over and cause them tonic immobility in which they’re in sleep and drown.
Not a true fair “Apex” ratio. It’s more like multiple Harvard graduates, all being tall bodybuilders attacking a single, much shorter street guy, then tackling and suffocating, then stealing his watch.
Until someone films two or more 20′ GWs ganging up on a smaller, slower developing orca calf and the orca calf still prevailing and eating the livers of the two larger whites all on its own, then I’ll keep this Apex thing in perspective.
But like lions and cheetas. the lions will take there food away
Take *their food? Who’s taking who’s food? You mean competing for pinnipeds? Pinnipeds will overpopulate with whites apart the equation.
They do not over eat the sharks only enough to scare them away. If one happens to make a error by staying or for fun they will kill them and share the liver? It’s like a pavlov test. They do it over and over they get the message to get out of Dodge City. It’s ingrained in the genes!
Where in nature are predator prey relationships ever fair? I think you need to be more careful with your values when interpreting natural relationships; i.e. you need to be more objective.
I said fair Apex ratio. You need to read and comprehend world’s better and process what’s been presented. Two or more vastly smarter, twice the prey size animals ganging up upon a single (usually juvenile) target is not exactly fairly fitting an Apex ratio. I do realize these labels are rightly fitted to orcas as dominant animals, but under those woefully imbalanced ratios, it’s more than a little misleading.
Grizzlies are regarded true Apex animals, too. But a pack of wolves can drive them off, even kill them. Same as hyenas to lions, cape dogs to hyenas, etc. And in those cases, the smaller animals ganged up on the larger ones.
With orcas and whites, the two or more larger, vastly smarter adult animals are ganging up on a single smaller one. That’s the most lopsided “value” one could conjure for an Apex ratio.
Edit: The literature seems to be saying that the increased frequency is from a small sub population that are now hunting in shallower waters than traditionally, most likely in response to anthropogenic pressures.
You are suggesting denying a likely vulnerable species a nutrient rich food source. Have you considered what the cost of intervening (i.e. countermeasures) is for the Orcas?
While you (finally) researched your wayward previous conclusions and now understand the rogue individuals, a very small sub pod if you will, as the source, your latter statement is easily the most preposterous you’ve made to date.
Whites are endangered and the protected species as their role is unparalleled in pinniped population. Orcas aren’t vulnerable and a few individuals ganging up on sharks to treat themselves to livers is hardly necessary for the ecological sustenance of orcas as a whole.
Countermeasures, if any, would naturally arrive only well after the science justified those measures. And this wouldn’t bear any impact upon orcas. The impact is to the whites and pinnipeds. Your logic could justify Somalian pirates with high seas looting because a few individuals seek an easy bounty at the expense of an entire ship of individuals and their cargo.
I’m not sure enough is known about this sub-type of Orcas to infer whether or not near-shore shark predation is an important part of their diet.
Good to hear about the countermeasures being based on science, but big call saying it won’t impact upon Orcas … ordinarily a statement like that would only be made well after the science justified the measures.
And back to belittlement, really?
We know that these two individuals, easily identifiable by their characteristic bent over dorsal fins, were/are having an adverse effect on the ecological dynamics of each area they show up in. They were nicknamed ‘Port’ and ‘Starboard’ and were sighted near the sevengill aggregation site at the time of both incidents in 2015 and 2016.
In 2017, it is suspected that these same two killer whales were also responsible for the death of five great white sharks further up the coast in Gansbaai.
A case study from Alaska, U.S., provided clues as to that effect.
Killer whales started targeting sea otters and caused massive declines in their abundance. The declines were documented between 1990 and 1997 by population surveys conducted across the Aleutian archipelago. This in turn had a knock-on effect, as sea urchin (sea otter food) populations exploded. As sea urchins’ primary food is kelp, this increase resulted in the deforestation of kelp forests in the region.
Currently, the once popular sevengill aggregation site is largely abandoned, with only rare sightings. Great white shark sightings have also declined in False Bay, possibly in part due to the presence of these killer whales.
What’s evident is that the presence of these shark specialists could have profound and cascading impacts on the ecosystem. Due to the unique predatory niche occupied by sevengill sharks in False Bay, the increased presence of these killer whales could have profound impacts throughout the ecosystem. This can repeat itself in each regional area with significant effect.
Reference?
The Cape Town and Alaskan case studies? First link below. But that’s the tip of the iceberg. See all links.
https://www.google.com/amp/…
https://video.nationalgeogr…
https://www.google.com/amp/…
Notwithstanding that these are magazine articles, as opposed to peer-reviewed science articles, they are a neat summary of the key paper on the subject (Engelbrecht et al, 2019). The first article, by Engelbrecht and Kock themselves, provides the following statement:
“With this information in hand we set about reviewing the literature on killer whale behavior, dietary specialization, and population delineation globally and locally. Based on the review, we hypothesized that the attacks on broadnose sevengill sharks in False Bay were possibly indicative of the arrival of a different sub‐group—or ecotype—of killer whale in the bay that feeds on sharks”.
They also say:
“There were distinct bite marks on the pectoral fins of the dead sharks. These evenly spaced, circular tooth impressions were identified as most likely being from a “flat-toothed” killer whale, which is rare in coastal waters”.
These statements support the idea that the predation events are not due to a small number of “rogue” Orcas, displaying abnormal behaviour, but is normal behaviour for a sub-group of Orcas that normally hunt off-shore.
It’s an important distinction because it triggers the question of why they are hunting closer to shore (e.g. over-fishing, sea currents, opportunistic) and informs any potential response (i.e. it may be reasonable to consider countermeasures if it were “rogue” behaviour).
My goodness. You’re impossible. Even when it’s right in front of you, you’d rather contort to great lengths to hold onto your skewed need to resist. This is something in you. Nothing more.
“In January 2015—at the same time as the first discoveries of the dead sharks—a local whale watching charter documented the arrival of two new killer whales in the bay. These individuals were easily identifiable by their characteristic bent over dorsal fins. They were nicknamed ‘Port’ and ‘Starboard’ and were sighted near the sevengill aggregation site at the time of both incidents in 2015 and 2016.
In 2017, it is suspected that these same two killer whales were also responsible for the death of five great white sharks further up the coast in Gansbaai.”
Those two, and a couple others have been documented (established by their unique markings) over and over again around the world. These are rogue, distinctive, serial killers whom gang up on sharks because they’ve learned how to turn sharks over into immobility and gouge out a quick energy source. It’s very simple. All cases were individuals from the same pod (subgroup) without exception.
These articles provide the biologists involved by name and there are many “evidence” links within those articles which are scientific studies with peer-review with clear documentation. Suspecting that maybe you need videos because you aren’t absorbing or retaining written reports, I linked you the pages where there’s video documentaries which illustrate everything for you.
Where in your link(s) does it use the word rogue?
And please stick to peer-review science, not videos or “journalistic” articles.
Anytime there’s an act upon one’s own, usually against expectation, in this case a few individuals biologists have named, it categorizes as rogue. Would the term divergent be more digestible for you?
Some scientists aren’t sure if the orcas are doing this just to show dominance, like a cat with a mouse. This qualifies as rogue behavior.
True to form, you also opposed this being new phenomenon, new frequency and select individuals right up until you were presented scientific references for that. Now you’re going to mince words again. Please.
Yes! Get him boys! Go!
What a bell end Chas Smith is “ And I must admit to being disappointed in the cameraman’s sense of pay-off for it would have been wonderful to see the carnal frenzy, tail-less shark swimming trying to paddle with its little fins“ Did you like pulling the legs of spiders when you were a boy?
No, but I’m also not a Killer Whale.
That’s even worse then, wanting to see/imagine a wounded animal struggling for its life before it is painfully killed anyway. That’s just sick, human or orca or otherwise.
Those were my thoughts exactly. Juvenile commentary. And that desire for “surfer meat” is way off. They’re not even eating these sharks. Just the liver.
not sure I would be too keen on being battered around by a couple of orcas for 30 minutes before being finished off.
@BrodieMoss on insta shared a better one yesterday of Orcas playing with a dolphin before eating it.
It’,s a baby shark…
What worries me most about this article is the lack of text/ layout awareness.
It’s like the return key hadn’t been invented yet.
Our backend is fucked.
Was in Kaikura on a whale trip back in 97?
The killer whales had spooked the sperm whales.
The woman on the boat told us that the pod will get together in a group, one male will sacrifice himself, breach, and swim away from the pod.
She said the only thing they eat is the tongue.