"It was shaking him around. Then he starts shouting, 'No joke, no joke, it’s biting me, it’s biting me, it’s eating me, it’s eating, it’s killing me!'"
As society gets back to the theoretical biz of arguing about how to deal with the overabundance of sharks in coastal waters, the we’re-vistiors-in-their-world vs the it-aint-pleasant-watching-people-get-eaten alive crowds, an interview with two witnesses ofyesterday’s shark attack at Manly makes for sobering viewing.
Ash Bowler and Eduardo Botty were surfing the two-foot waves, a little hour-long post-surf sesh, when Andre paddles over, waves hello and is hit the bull shark.
“This guy comes paddling up, and sits about fifteen metres from us, smile and a wave, he was jovial, he was pumped to be out there,” says Ash Bowler.
“He sorta paused to catch his breath then the shouting started. He’s just going, “Shark! Shark! Shark! Shark!” and bouncing up and down. I looked over and it was so animated I thought it was a terrible joke.
“It was shaking him around. Then he starts shouting, “No joke, no joke, it’s biting me, it’s biting me, it’s eating me, it’s eating, it’s killing me!” And he’s screaming and I look back and he’s still getting shaken around.”
FIGHT OR FLIGHT
Ash, who also likes to spearfish, says the shark was so big it wasn’t immediately apparent he could help.
“This thing put the fear into me, the way it easily shook him around. I was expecting him to go straight down. It had total control of him. He yelled, “Help! Help! Don’t leave me, don’t leave me!” and in that first moment, my first instinct was to move away. I assessed, I can’t help that, it’s too big, too big, it’s too big and there’s blood and you get that first look of his leg and it was out of a horror movie.”
Still, Ash and Eduardo move in and help Andrew to shore.
“You do go for a moment, what am I doing here, but then he says again, help, help. It takes over and you do what you gotta do.”
Ash says Andre told him he’d need a tourniquet so he started yelling to the beach, “Tourniquet! Tourniquet! Tourniquet!”
“He saved himself in a way,” says Ash.
Australia, surfers and sharks always had an uncomfortable relationship. Not so much for the sharks it must be stated.
Cull baby Cull!
If only it was as simple a moral dilemma as the “we’re-visitors-in-their-world vs the it-aint-pleasant-watching-people-get-eaten alive” comparison. More accurately its the “destroying nature will make the planet unliveable for future generations” vs the “lets destroy the planet, live our best lives while it lasts and fuck the future” comparison.
Eh. What about Reunion. Was fine to surf there for 40 yrs. Then a few government officials changed the rules about who could fish what and where and suddelny its a shark fest. Its not so simple. In the 1957 Durban Black December 9 attacks, 6 fatal. Natal Sharks Board formed, netted beaches and when was the last fatal attack? And are all the sharks gone? Nope. Go spearfishing the outside reefs anywhere along the coast from Sodwana to Port Alfred and there will be oceanic black tips, dusky, bulls, tigers. Even occasionally a white. In deep clean water the shark behaviour is very different. There is reasonably good evidence that sharks removed from inshore waters are not rapidly replaced. This bullshit of balancing nature vs safety. Every aspect of the planet has been gentrified but for some reason we want the apex predator to outstrip its sub trophic food supply? Sharks ar eno more magical than any other sea creature and we are happy to scrape the ocean floor for all the others. Foolhardy.
For context, I grew up surfing in Durban, spear fished extensivley along the KZN coastline and am now raising my family on the NSW Eastcoast. My son is 12. And jumps of high structures into i shore bays. Could have been him or one of his freinds. We not naive to the risks, he also surfs and spears. But this emotional pseudo intellectual position that sharks are somehow a magical gift that need some special protection. Nonsense.
And for context from me. I have lived and surfed in and around Durban (often at ‘unprotected’ beaches especially on the south coast) for over 40 years, still do, daily. I’ve also surfed at many other places with high numbers of Bulls, Whites and Tigers etc, including along the east coast of Australia. I have two sons aged 12 and 14 who are in the ocean most days. And they are already smart enough to realise the need to protect sharks (and all other sea and land animals), is critical for the future of the planet and their future too. You are at least correct that sharks are not a standalone magical gift. They are instead one element of the magical gift called nature, all of which needs protection for our ultimate survival as a species on this planet.
They don’t need “special” protection.
Sorry to bombard you but you’ve got me on a roll here. Ultimately the one of the indisputable proven facts (amongst many) is that the increase in surfers in Australia (particularly on the east coast) is the reason for the high number of shark encounters there. So the ‘problem’ is not the number of sharks (research shows that the shark populations are fairly stable) but the number of surfers in NSW (and pretty much everywhere in Australia). Thats a fact that no one is arguing about. And everyone commenting down here would like to see less surfers. So the easiest and best solution is for you, your kid and 1 trillion other Australian surfers to stop surfing. Or you could just move back to Durban and enjoy epic uncrowded waves on the south coast (check Jordy’s latest vid).
Nah that shit isn’t going to fly.
Once enough people get chomped there will be a revolt and a mass vigilante culling, probably done in an unscientific manner and far beyond what will be needed.
Environmentalist insensitivity will be their undoing, negating decades of progress.
Simple as that.
Ja sure. Power to the people! hahahahahaha
Mob rule has always won out over reason, why should it be any different now?
Makes perfect sense I’m sure
wrong mate- read the science.
The increase in attacks is not accounted for by pop. increase.
Thats a position not scientifically or logically coherent.
haha guess it depends if you follow the opinions of scientists or orange demi-gods and their minions
Recent shark science mate- read up on it.
Attack rate increase not accounted for by pop increase.
As per my last response
See response from Global shark attack hotspots: Identifying underlying factors behind increased unprovoked shark bite incidence
Blake K. Chapman
,
Daryl McPhee
Blake K. Chapman – “potential causative factors ……..are likely attributable to rises in human population”
Daryl McPhee – “an increased number of people participating in water activities is an obvious contributing factor”
But “globally, this factor alone was insufficient to explain the observed trends, and Amin et al. (2012) determined that unprovoked bites were not proportional to beach attendance in Florida”.
Science means reading all the words mate- even the ones that disagree with or modify your views.
Absolutely and its seems you’re missing the point. Also clearly not reading my comments accurately. The debate wasn’t about whether increased numbers of people in the ocean is the sole reason for the increased number of incidents or not. But rather that it is a (major) factor.
Copy that mate.
RESEARCH ARTICLES| 31 MAR 2021
Predicting potential future reduction in shark bites on people Open Access
Corey J. A. Bradshaw Corresponding Author
ORCID logo
; Phoebe Meagher; Madeline J. Thiele; Robert G. Harcourt
ORCID logo
; Charlie Huveneers
ORCID logo
The conditions leading to a higher probability of being bitten by a shark have been investigated for decades. Of course, relative shark abundance [27] and the number of people in the waters frequented by sharks [24,28] ultimately influence bite probability to some extent, but to an as-yet unquantifiable degree. In addition, habitat modification and destruction, water quality, climate change and anomalous weather patterns, and the distribution and abundance of prey, have all been hypothesized to explain changes in the number of shark bites and shark bites per capita [24,27,29,30]. Indeed, there is evidence that bite probability varies according to the time of day [31,32], water depth [31,32], tide height [32,33], swell height [34], the lunar cycle [35,36], the position of sun [37], the season [3,27,32,33], wind direction [32], temperature [3], rainfall [3], the presence of upwelling [34] and the distance to rivers [3]. Bite probability also varies among species—most worldwide result from white, tiger, bull (Carcharhinus leucas) and whaler (e.g. Carcharhinus limbatus) sharks [24].
That environmental conditions are correlated with shark-bite behaviour leads to the hypothesis that broad-scale climatic conditions influencing oceanographic and weather conditions could potentially explain long-term trends in rates of shark bites. In Australia where shark bites are relatively common, the Australian Shark Attack File [25] has now amassed over 1100 separate incidences of a shark bite on humans since the late eighteenth century. Despite the conclusion that per capita rates have been increasing since the 1980s, examining the country’s overall per capita bite rate (see Results) over a longer period suggests a potential periodicity in the peaks and lows in bite rate.
Saw that. Fuck that guy rips.
Haha you’re clearly new to the debate but for a quick catch up on past discussions use google check out the data on attacks along the KZN coast (while fatalities haven’t occurred there have been many incidents at netted beaches including in Durban since the nets were installed) so they are definitely not a guaranteed solution to prevent incidents AND high numbers of documented sea animals (whales, dolphins, turtles etc etc) are killed by the nets annually. Regarding your theory about Reunion, thats just a hack theory not backed by scientific facts (also easily findable via google or GROK if thats your preferred poison). Same applies to your theory about “sharks removed/killed in inshore areas. And finally your theory about removing apex predators (or in fact any animal) is complete ignorance (something Darwin identified in 1859).
Reunion’s sudden increase in attacks from 2011 – 2019 possibly multifactorial: Fish farm known to attract sharks (divers refused to dive to repair cages); transfer of fresh water from wet east coast to dry west coast, resullting in more fresh water entering the sea; urbanisation/run-off; installation of a marine reserve, removing human presence & ban on bullshark fishing in this area leading to increase population. All government decisions.
One theory that is absolutely not indisputable and can be discounted is increased human presence i.e more surfers in the water. Loads of surfers gave up or left after 2011 and attacks continued at same rate.
How you goin Batty? You out of that drama ya got yourself into mate?
Haha all good thanks SC. Batty’s up in Scotland I believe, getting barrelled (saw some footage – no it wasn’t mine)
Haha good onya mate. All that fuss finally died down over there I hope
Actually no, the number of incidents have declined dramatically in Reunion despite surfers re-entering the ocean. And while I wholeheartedly agree that governments take dumb decisions such as establishing fish farms etc etc, they cant be faulted for steps taken to protect the marine environment. Also and despite your fuzzy logic about Reunion et al, the rational that increased attacks are as a result of increased numbers of ocean users is an agreed position amongst the vast majority of experts
That positi0n has been rejected or modified recently DP by most shark scientists as it doesn’t account for the rate of increase of attacks.
Rejected by shark scientist where? by whom? People wearing white lab coats in youtube vids no doubt.
No mate.
From Science Direct .
Unprovoked shark bite is not a homogenous phenomenon, complicating assessment of the event. Bites may occur over a range of different habitats (e.g. coral reefs, surf beaches, rivers), and the various species implicated in bites differ substantially in biology and ecology. However, the three main species of concern to humans are white sharks, bull sharks (Carcharhinus leucas), and tiger sharks (McPhee, 2014). Furthermore, the pattern of human usage of coastal waters also differs both spatially and temporally, and unprovoked shark bites occur during a range of human water-based activities (McPhee, 2014).
Identifying that the frequency of unprovoked shark bite has been increasing globally is important, but given its heterogeneous nature, further understanding requires analysis of trends at regional levels, and a focus on the drivers of any trends at this level. There are a number of factors that may contribute to the global trend of increasing unprovoked shark bite. Paramount is simply that a growing human population means that more people are likely to be in the water, and hence the probability of an unprovoked shark bite is increased. However, McPhee (2014) identified that, globally, this factor alone was insufficient to explain the observed trends, and Amin et al. (2012) determined that unprovoked bites were not proportional to beach attendance in Florida.
Aha so as stipulated by a single source you unearthed (via Grok I assume?), Science Direct (essentially an AI tool) highlights that ‘this factor alone’ was insufficient using Florida as an example. But this same source still stipulates that greater numbers of people is a likely factor (along with virtually all other scientists researching sharks) and it uses Florida as an example of a possibility that this may not be accurate in isolation (duh!), which is unique in that numerous Bull shark bites occur there annually. But mainly from small sharks where there are particularly high numbers vs elsewhere, which is a completely different scenario to Australia.
I linked another source mate- which I will find and repost.
Think you’ll find a developing consensus amongst shark scientists that pop inc does not account for the increased rate of attacks.
This is peer reviewed science.
Not Grok btw- don’t use any AI tools.
That’s ridiculous. Every shark scientist includes pop increase as a major factor. Perhaps new research is providing an insight into additional factors such as greater sewerage spills associated to climate change weather etc but none discount population increase. Oh and search engines are essentially AI. The link you initially used was also an AI source. Best to rely directly on credible Academic and Research institutions only.
I have every single piece of shark science research published in last decade (majority in last 2 decades) read and collated here DP.
Pop increase is a factor, but is not accounting for the increased rate of attacks- that is now becoming a clear position.
Pop increase also has major flaws- IE massive increase in population in Oz between 1950 and 1990 and static or falling rates of attacks.
That requires rejecting or modifying the hypothesis mate.
Assuming you understand how science works?
Haha. Must’ve been hard to read all that research when you constantly found each researcher citing pop increase as a major factor behind incident increase. And of course the rational is based on the ‘increase’ of both. To your point about ‘flaws’. In Australia, surfing only really took off in the late 80’s and astronomically after covid. I lived in Sydney in the early 90’s. Loved the South coast of NSW the best, especially the Ulladulla and Jervis Bay regions). So the correlation between that and the increasing number of incidents only reinforces the inclusion of pop. increase as a factor.
Yes, the significant number of surfers re-entering the water in Reunion was post-covid 2020 onwards, but the attacks didn’t continue. (2011 – 2019 saw dramatic decline in numbers of surfers but attacks were the same). So, for there, increased numbers in the water didnt equal increased attacks.
Fuzzy logic? Or maybe bona fide evidence that increased numbers of ocean users doesnt mean increase in attacks.
I know this commenting business is tiring but you’ve got to read the comment I’m commenting on before you comment. Anyhow to get back to the point about Reunion…… This element of the ‘debate’ in my response wasn’t about attacks due to increased numbers of sea users. Regardless the decrease in attacks in Reunion is certainly not a debunking of the scientifically accepted fact that the increase in attacks is related to the increase in sea users. It’s largely because they’ve introduced a number of measures to create better awareness and warn surfers about the presence of sharks. Oh and despite the trauma experienced they never attempted to cull sharks to solve the problem.
The only measures that were introduced in Reunion which could have had an effect on the attacks stopping was the introduction of drum lines (regulation, if not a cull) in certain areas off the west coast and maybe an increase in guys using shark repellants. Everyone there was well aware of the shark risk after the attacks in 2011. Any “warnings” or awareness campaigns had zero effect on the attacks.
Glad you’re managing to catch up but you clearly don’t know much about Reunion surfing and the steps they’ve taken to mitigate attacks including drones, divers patrolling the reef etc. But regardless you clearly don’t care about the facts in your determination to drive your fuck the environment mindset.
Errr actually DP I know quite a bit about Reunion surfing and the attacks and what they did trying to stop them. They tested drones at St Leu but decided against using them cos bullsharks generally don’t swim along, or near, the surface when they’re in attack mode. The Vigies Requins (divers) were used at one or two spots, never at St Leu, never in St Pierre (probably the 2 most famous spots). More recently they’ve had the ‘Water Patrol’ at St Leu (guys on jet skis). But funding has been a problem.
Don’t have a fuck the environment mindset either. For sure we should be doing everything we can to protect the environment, have compassion for all animals, living things. But should have compassion for shark attack victims and their families / friends too.
Totally agree with you about compassion for victims and their families. On that point I have yet to read about or hear from a victim that sharks must be killed to prevent incidents. Even Bethany Hamilton, who hates gay people, still loves sharks.
Sorry but it is that simple. You’re advocating for the removal of sharks from the natural environment so you can surf where you want, damn the ecological consequences.
No.
Read the words.
Craziest thing is, until Sunday, it was all about the Great Whites and bulls were a sideshow. The Crowdy Head killing in November a portent maybe.
Haha ja might as well just kill all those fucking pesky sharks
I did read the words. He is advocating for removing the sharks from inshore areas so he can surf wherever he wants. There are ecological consequences. Scraping the bottom for trash fish for cheap fast food is also fucking horrific, two wrongs don’t make a right, and there’s a world of difference between eliminating top-of-the-food chain animals and those at the bottom. In this case, literally.
Thats a confusing hodge podge of concepts there Tom that shows you have really no idea about what you are talking about.
Not that black and white either DP.
Both false dichotomies.
I wanted to weigh in about how they have limited hunts in the south for alligators to keep the numbers in check and larger more dangerous ones from getting too comfy around habitated areas, and also how much like them, and snakes ect.., Bullsharks can easily overbreed and just feed on each other for sustenance, and without thinning those numbers could easily make surfing in those habitats more dangerous than jumping out of a plane without a parachute, and how thinking that eradicating them entirely would be like thinking you could eradicate cockroaches from the planet.
But maybe I shouldn’t go there?
It’s prob more acceptable to target bull sharks than it would be to set up drum lines and netting that just wreck all kinds of species.
Very true.
There has to be some middle ground that works.
Bulls at least should seem an easier species to deal with in that regard.
Its definitely B&W that humankind’s wanton destruction of nature is fucking up the environment to an extent that humans are dying as a result.
Ok ok apologies…
2 bullsharks swim up to a bar..
1 says “that one’s a bit shallow for me..”
the other says…”what!? You want they should recite Dostoevsky?!”
Are they only attacking short boards? Midlengths and Mals look too big???
I remember the days when Aussies were named Peter Smith
And Sally. Good times
my good mate Pete Digga Smith
Digger loves his fishing and his cricket
Or Mick or Shane or Stevo. You should see the names of some of the groms in my groms school, faaaaark me. Heaps of Kirra’s for girls but soooo many other wild ones. For the boys Banjo appears to be really popular which I fucking can’t stand. The Banjo in my daughters class is a proper little cunt and he’s a ranga too haha
If my parents named me Banjo I’m changing it as soon as I turn 18 or moving on to middle name which the more I think abou it is probably equally fucked like stratocaster or something.
Banjo shark McGee
Haha I don’t know mate Trumpet Connery has a nice ring to it. I swear every time I hear the name Banjo I think of The Deliverance and the Duelling Banjos and want to start screaming and make a run for it
Perhaps this recent run of shark incidents can convince the Australian government at the state and federal level that protecting PEOPLE is more important than protecting sharks?
I would think so, but maybe not.
Not stopping the machete massacre in Vic, why they gonna give a fuck about the shark massacre in NSW.
Haha, from the frying pan to the fire moving from SA to Australia. Machete murderers and sharks going crazy down there. And the government doesn’t give a fuck. Bring your kids back and they will at least get waves without being dropped in on each time.
what a choice, eh?
“look, there’s a ten ft. tall serial killer chopping up that bloke, with a chainsaw. Should I try to save him?”
bravo the legends who risked life and limb.
hope Ruyter recovers and heals well.
Porque no los dos? I’m not falling for your rage bait Derek, it’s not a binary choice.
Those guys are dead-set living legends, I see some medals in their future.
Just spent a few days at a north coast rivermouth surfing solo or with one or two out.
Not a single second of it- all in pumping surf- was pleasant or relaxing.
Thought many times- what if one of us was hit?
That’s a feeling I can relate to. Yesterday I surfed one of my fave winter spots north of Kona. Overhead, clean, only five other guys out. It’s a longish paddle out… around 1/8 mile. One by one, the other guys caught waves in. I’m sitting out there catching super fun waves, by myself. It was eerie. After a few more, I caught one in as far as possible, then paddled for shore.
Love that spot. The road in still closed on Wednesdays?
I remember when it was closed period.
And a couple of the spot further north were spoken in hushed tones about spots no one surfed that were out over the lava fields.
Those were the days…
I had a magic session at this spot right around Xmas in mid 90’s. Me and my buddy along with Dave parmenter and rell sunn. I got a 6’ screamer with rell hooting at me while paddling out. One of highlights of my life
It is an epic setup, postcard level shit.
https://uploads.disquscdn.c…
Another even better spot 30 minutes north
I lived there for many years, know them all.
It is too bad it’s geographical location robs it of the majority of swell, even in summer.
Once I made to move to the North Shore, I got more days over double overhead in one season then I got for the entirety of my life before, and there was just no going back.
But those spots, the few times they do light up, are incredible.
I lived on B.I. 9 months and 15 + years on Oahu/n shore. Lost my mind on B.I. hearing about a Waimea size nw angled swell only to surf 3’ to 4’ inconsistent dribble on west side B.I.
Giant straight west for weeks is a different story. West side B.I. can turn into the Ments during a run like that. Also enjoyed that morning glass as well compared to the early morning trade riddled ruffle on n shore.,
Nice
With children?
nah solo trip with wife, primary mission :romance.
But she knows this guy don’t turn his back on pumping surf.
on a “romance trip”, not turning your back on pumping surf can lead to the wife turning her back on the pumping guy…..which also can be kind of fun, unless you’re surfing at the time.
A bloke we knew went for a morning surf on his honeymoon while his new wife slept
At Cactus
Witnesses say the beast that took him was the size of a vwcombi, with a head and tail
A piece of his board was found later…
Cameron Bayes RIP
Im just a guy from the internet but, on a trip like that its not the surf you should be pumping.
Either way hope it was a good one
24 hrs in a day.
Stamina levels through the roof
She expects me to paddle out if it’s pumping. And show up for the bed flute caper.
Workin hard playin hard.
You ever think, when you’re in the water, gal on the beach, that you’re going to become a story on the Daily Mail, surfer killed while family watched helplessly from beach etc?
I set her up in air-con, movie, etc etc.
Didn’t want her witnessing.
Been enjoying the crowd on the point here for once but fuck this arvo was extra spooky / stinky. Was saying there would be little sympathy for anyone bitten at this stage of the Sharknado too
Is the north coast where the attacks have been happening? Or where there are lots of bull sharks generally? If so, that’s dumb dumb.
North Coast, Sydney- everywhere.
How times have changed round here ay brother
Absolute fucking legends
I’m normally a “let everyone die” kinda guy but this shark shit has gone too far.
I quit! I hate Surfing!
I know a guy that sells T-shirts and hats that hates surfing also.
Good!
Please share your resolution with as many other surfers as possible. Hopefully it will become contagious.
Buy the hat!
https://www.thecriticalslidesociety.com/products/beachgrit-hate-surfing-hat?variant=46511712534697&country=AU¤cy=AUD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&google_shopify_campaign_id=22771546216&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=22761813030&gbraid=0AAAAADdk0VDUQYuq6qgugcIjQZYkD02Du&gclid=CjwKCAiA7LzLBhAgEiwAjMWzCMWMAs3E6fEpPegAKjYrivZbBkzxY9RbIPI_LoGf38tjkRJJNEng1BoCyvcQAvD_BwE
https://uploads.disquscdn.c…
The thing that turned me off about Monty’s story was how contrived and unrealistic it all was, like if there was a passing dead whale the Sharks would give a fuck about anything else.
But this….this is as compelling as it gets.
Truth is always going to make fiction look fictional…