“As the size of bulls sharks increases they will go from bites to people being taken completely,” says shark fisherman.
It’s hardly necessary to remix the extraordinary run of shark attacks in NSW waters from two weeks ago, dead kid, man in the prime of his life left with the choice of a limp or a prosthesis, others with the fear of god put through ‘em.
Public response was mostly the ol it’s-their-environment-take-your-chances-buddy with no stomach for the obvious solution of regular bull shark culls, this approach articulated in an opinion piece in the Sydney Morning Herald that found a silver lining in the deaths of Nico Antic and Mercury Psillakis.
“If a positive can be taken from this year’s shark incidents, it will be to reverse some assumptions and restore respect for the ocean. It’s not our swimming pool. It was never ours to take away.”
Bull shark sizes exploding
All very interesting, but now Joel Nancarrow is claiming the average size of bull sharks is increasing dramatically.
See the pattern?
So this is a part of the reason I like to keep people up to date with the bull sharks we catch.
It’s not only the number that’s increasing but the size is increasing every season. Here’s a bit of a look into it.
There’s been the odd exception with the one Geoff got in 2017 but that thing at the time blew everyone away where it’s not unusual to get them over 300kg now.
Little things like this are the reason these attacks are happening and going to become more common and serious, I’ve been tagged in a couple of missing people posts who never came out of the water, I truely hope sharks are in no way at all involved, but as the size of these things increases they will go from bites to people being taken completely.
Just like Whites!
Do you remember when Great Whites would take a leg and disappear with fright but now take surfers in their entirety, Andrew Sharpe and Steve Payne in Esperance, Lance Appleby and Simon Baccanello in South Oz.
Bulls next?
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I like!
They are world champions in baseball, they’ve won the world series since 1903
The Bulls are a shit shark and should be culled. Not to eradicate but to keep size and numbers in check. The so called scientists dont seem to come up with any real ideas or sound knowledge. Just keep the grants coming and they can continue to get paid to play in the ocean…
Silver fox.
And so lean!
I think so too, but Gal fat shames me. The unspoken realities of having a younger partner.
Why is it ok to fish Tuna or Swordfish or Mahi, but illegal to fish Bull or White sharks?
Bull sharks are not protected so fish away. Great Whites are protected in certain areas (especially the US and Australia) but are not protected internationally. The protection status is based on vulnerability and population levels, much like whales, but that protection is not worldwide.
Not protected but a bag limit of one a day, which is probs about as much as you can carry.
People living in my area catch them as a source of food.
Great eating, as many know it is one of the proteins called flake.
The favourite river hole is also the site of the first recorded shark attack that led to a fatality in this antipodean country.
Static lines are illegal I am told but often deployed – giant hook with big chunk of meat skewered onto it , thick rope and Bob’s your uncle.
Tuna so majestic too!
There is always the possibility that this guy got better at catching sharks resulting in him catching larger sharks. Or, he could be posting photos of the larger sharks he has caught to lend credence to his desired outcome. Either way, this what one would call pseudoscience.
It’s hard to take Australian “experts” seriously after watching their attemp last year at putting a rocket into orbit, tip over and blow up on the launch pad.
It’s harder to take anyone seriously who thinks that the Aussies are the only rocketeers who’ve had a catastrophic launchpad (or soon after launch) malfunction…
nice to see you at the Linus send off Beef.
Yeah bloody oath mate
Bummer for the reason, but a great get together…
thanks for the mushy spot
Just to be sure that we’re on the same page, they were in the areas indicated haha
https://uploads.disquscdn.c…
It was about 15 years ago though…
https://uploads.disquscdn.c… First South Island comp in near on a decade, got the win and dedicated it to old mate.
Oh good shit
Yeah hadn’t seen him in aaaaages
Did you get stuck between the shaka claim and rockstar horns?
When you get 3rd you don’t have to worry about claims! That’s me and my Gal either side of the champ.
You should tell her that wearing a BBC sweater can be a bit dicey.
At least she’s a woman, 95% of the other BBC hoodie wearers are men.
Yes, their coverage of the Middle East is appalling.
Common.
1992 called and wants the flanno back Negs.
Dane and SUshi’s point was maxing DOH and not a trace of wind that entire day, max 4 guys out.
I’m not exactly sure which of 2 spots you are calling DSSS’s point but neither of those places gets DOH unless Rincon is fucking maxing and it wasn’t.
SSpeaking of which is anyone going nightsurfing or not?
Decent moon right now so maybe. Rincon typically has a few anytime the moon is close to full on a clear night. Definitely not me, can’t see far enough in the dark.
Los pitos
(the whistles)..
Yeah, there’s that one but the other day Hip was referring to a different spot I believe.
Penis point!
I just figure Australian cunt needs some pushback once in a while with all the America sucks and Australia is great stuff. A lot to hate about America but we can at least put rockets into orbit.
Uhhh, maybe its just that we send so many fucking rockets in the air the explosions go a bit unnoticed.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/technology/space-exploration/massive-spacex-rocket-explosion-rocks-south-texas-ignites-safety-panic/ar-AA1VkfaZ
Sure some new experimental ones fail, I guess Australia is basically in the nineteen sixties with where they are.
Not exactly pseudoscientific- more just an anecdote.
n=1 data is still data mate.
There is nothing scientific about some random posting photos and claiming it shows shark size is increasing. That is the definition of pseudoscience.
It shows for him, assuming his effort is a fixed variable, that average size is increasing over time.
If both his numbers and size are increasing that is evidence.
You understand how science works?
Ha! Yeah, I do. Fortunately my education went past grade 5 so I don’t think random photos are “science”.
You understand what data was used to determine white sharks were threatened?
If this guy has documented his catches over a time series that is valuable data.
Evidence is evidence mate, doesn’t matter if it’s an Aussie bogan collecting it.
I keep flipping back and forth, yeah, barrelled, yeah, LT etc. Both have a very good point.
Kept flipping over…
Barreled yeah, LT yeah….yeah yeah!
But whose point had more girth?
Ground hog day
As per not even a piece of wetsuit left from some victims.
SURELY a “scientist” can’t keep trotting out that same old Valerie Taylor bullshit that sharks don’t like the taste of humans.
Can’t remember when I’ve kept eating something after the first taste was terrible.
(Apart from a previous marriage!)
https://uploads.disquscdn.c…
Heyyy ooooohhh
are you talking about bull sharks or GWS’s??
Sharks do not hunt humans like say crocodiles…juvenile whites ( up to 13′) jaws aren’t strong enough to eat whale/seal blubber which is their fav food…..and mostly big whites don’t eat the whole body…
Bullsharks at any size will try and eat ya…there ‘s shit load more bulls than whites…..and yep humans seem to be on their menu….a new normal?
Most large white shark attacks on humans are predatory- body consumed.
You might want to check your source of that info.
Stephen Payne Esperance- full consumption, body not recovered
Lance Appleby Streaky Bay- full consumption, body not recovered
Todd Gendle Streaky Bay- full consumption, body not recovered
Simon Baccanello Elliston- full consumption, body not recovered
Simon Nellist Sydney- full consumption, body not recovered
Paul Millachip Fremantle- bitten in half, partial consumption
Andrew Sharpe Esperance- full consumption, body not recovered
Basically, if you get attacked by a white in Southern Australia you will be consumed or bitten in half.
Source: Australian Shark Incident Database
You’re picking the wrong guy mate to debate this with.
There are plenty more examples if you want to go there.
I needed that list the other day. Just screenshot it for future reference.
Easy tiger!! I’m not debating or picking a fight with you. I get it, your take is based on WA and SA mostly. Loads of whites in other places too. I will say that “body not recovered”doesn’t mean “full consumption”, it’s not the same thing. The only way to know that is to find the entire human body in the stomach of a shark.
Body not recovered, consumption witnessed in several of those cases.
Coroners found in others likely shark had consumed victim.
Many others.
What point are you trying to make?
No point other than the statement “Most large white shark attacks on humans are predatory- body consumed” isn’t really accurate but all good.
stats say 0 body consumption
Incorrect.
I’ll modify it.
Most large white shark attacks in Southern Australia are predatory – body consumed and person eaten or half eaten.
That is now accurate.
Some people hate vegemite, some lick it off the plate.
Sharks are no different
actually when you check the stats….when you say body not recovered , this does not mean the body has been eaten….ISAF and global shark attack , do not record any case of full body consumption by GWS’s!
When someone witnesses the body being consumed, multiple witnesses or it’s filmed- then it’s been consumed.
Go look at the video of Simon Nellist being eaten alive and in full- it’s not up for debate.
Even shark scientists now admitting predatory attacks (person eaten) do occur.
You’re out of step with reality there Moz.
Don’t Whites hit hard, then wait for their prey to bleed-out? Which is what folk confuse with them not liking the taste. We’re the only species with rescue capabilities. Full consumption might be due to a lack of help, or growing numbers / competition for food. Yours, Dr. Flatlately, MSBSha.
Met Val once, got real excited and spilled my champagne down her décolletage.
Unlike *GW there is No shortage of Bulls, cull em
Me: hmm it’s been a bit sharky around here lately, waves aren’t that good, may as well just do some work in my yard.
my yard: https://uploads.disquscdn.c…
Oh fuck! I only have cute Wallabies! Which the ex-feral cat hates! Reckon he had some encounters! Growls in the safety of the sunroom 🥹
Xox
I remember being in Currumbin Valley and pulling up to a stop in the eco-village. I look to my right and about 4 meters away from me is one of these deer-dog monstrosities staring at me.
We stared down a good 10 seconds. I’m clearly the one who broke. Not sure if that or the red kanga at the wildlife sanctuary holding my arm in place when feeding it kibble was more scary.
https://uploads.disquscdn.c… you’re welcome
that dude swimming near the rocks in Sydney was completely eaten by a white as well.
Simon Nellist.
Vanished. That video was gnarly
what an AWFL shark https://x.com/MassDailyNews/status/2018171640656617585?s=20
Lord help us if the Massholes win the Super Bowl.
Go SeaHawks !
End of year and I’ve finally got skin in the game !
Beginning of the season I take whatever odds on four teams. $50 on each.
That’s it for the season. Finally I’ve got a horse to have a start for the finish line.
Is Australia the next Reunion Island?
OZ taking that title by a mile.
Pretty even at this stage.
Reunion
– 2012: 1 fatal attack
– 2013: 2 fatal attacks
– 2014: 0 fatal attacks
– 2015: 2 fatal attacks
– 2016: 0 fatal attacks
– 2017: 2 fatal attacks
– 2018: 0 fatal attacks
– 2019: 1 fatal attack
– 2020-2021: 0 fatal attacks ²
Oz
2012: 2 fatal attacks
– 2013: 2 fatal attacks
– 2014: 5 fatal attacks
– 2015: 2 fatal attacks
– 2016: 2 fatal attacks
– 2017: 1 fatal attack
– 2018: 1 fatal attack
– 2019: 0 fatal attacks
– 2020: 8 fatal attacks
That is Reunion 8 to 24 Oz
for years where it wasn’t even nearly as bad as now.
Oz for the win by a mile.
Not a fair comparison as there are too many variables, such as population size.
But for an apples to apples comparison I’m sure that Reunion could have hit 8 in one year if they allowed the surfers to keep going out.
Population offset by length of coastline
Florida, shark bite capital of the world, and a high per capita population of swimmers
– 2011: No fatal attacks reported
– 2012: 1 fatal attack (Francisco Javier Solorio Jr., 39, Surf Beach, California, but possibly a bull shark in Florida waters)
– 2013: No fatal attacks reported in Florida
– 2014: No fatal attacks reported in Florida
– 2015: No fatal attacks reported in Florida
– 2016: No fatal attacks reported in Florida
– 2017: No fatal attacks reported in Florida
– 2018: No fatal attacks reported in Florida
– 2019: No fatal attacks reported in Florida
– 2020: No fatal attacks reported in Florida (28 total shark attacks, none fatal)
– 2021: No fatal attacks reported in Florida (28 total shark attacks, none fatal)
So why the disparity?
And should Oz just ban swimmers too to resolve the fatalities that were clearly a cause /effect thing due to human made decisions, like reunion?
I’ll liken it to the cockroach in a building.
If you do nothing about it you will live in a cockroach infested place, with adults breeding exponentially.
So to prevent that you must implement measures to mitigate that, like spraying and baiting.
Eventually after enough time goes by the spray wears off, and the bait never exterminated them completely, so they will return in time.
But the point is you will never really exterminate them permanently, it is simply impossible to do.
So if you really value all life, should you just live in a cockroach infested place because that’s their natural domain?
This is the Shark huggers argument.
In the case of sharks, they are an apex predator, very unlike the cockroach. For apex predators, there are dire consequences on the ecosystem they live in if they aren’t present. Care must be taken when starting to control or mitigate their numbers due to the mitigation effects on the rest of the ecosystem. Mitigation might be necessary with the current situation in Australia but that mitigation should be a part of a master plan to deal with core issue that is creating the increase. Is it a result of some natural occurrence or is it happening due to some human intervention on some other part of the ecosystem? Disrupting ecosystems because we don’t like what is happening could result in much greater problems in the future. If there is something we are doing to disrupt the ecosystem, that should be mitigated through numerous measures, not just killing all the sharks. Regardless, the idea of just culling a species with no plan is idiotic and will disrupt something else with that ecosystem. The outcomes of these mitigation measures and what happens when we just start eliminating a species are well documented.
Apex predator or not, you cannot eradicate them completely and they will return to infestation levels if not kept in check. That practice is common for Gators throughout the south and no sign of imminent collapse.
By contrast no cull round my parts for crocs and now there are rivers you would never venture around that 20 years ago were totally safe.
The collapse of apex predators might be legit if we weren’t in the picture messing with nature like we do, but we crossed that bridge and need to deal with it realistically.
Bulls are incredibly resilient and will be just fine if their numbers are thinned in certain parts, and same with the lesser species IMO.
So you don’t think a random culling of an apex predator will likely have a negative effect on other parts of the ecosystem?
Not when that ecosystem is already under pressure from an overload of apex predators.
It goes the other way too, where too many apex predators collapse the system from below, then just feed on each other for indefinite sustenance.
Just ask all the birds on Guam, oh wait there aren’t any….
That’s my point. There needs to be a plan for what the culling will or should accomplish and how to accomplish that.
one would think it should accomplish a thinning of larger adults in the habitated areas where the concentration of incidents occur.
How to accomplish it is offering a premium price on those larger one in those areas in question, best using hook and line where the bycatch is really low and wholesale slaughter doesn’t occur, like netting entire schools of fish, which again is impossible to do with Bulls.
As Bulls are open season year round anyway, maybe divert some the money going to smart line/tag and release research and offer that to fisherman who catch and turn in those larger sharks in those sensitive populated areas for post mortem research.
All this for Bulls specifically.
Many years ago someone starting thinning my hair, and now it’s mostly extinct.
My hair relocated to my backside.
Positive effect.
Definitely should a positive for the ecosystem as a whole, not just for those who want to frolic in the ocean.
Positive effect for meso-predators and dolphin populations.
You keep straw manning.
No-one is talking about “random” culling- just some fisheries management principles applied to bullsharks.
Aus has some of the best fisheries management in the world.
No fatalities because the sharks are about the same size as their waves.
I see monsters being caught from shore on the regular.
You live in Florida now?
I see monsters being caught from shore on the regular
*on YouTube….
Sorry should have specified that.
Yeah, just ribbing you. What kind of “monsters” are they catching though? Lots of hammerheads caught in Florida. I don’t think they have ever been linked to a fatality.
There is more, way more, but you get the point
mostly black tips and whalers following the mullet run.
Not as dangerous as whites or bulls.
I’ve always wondered why whalers don’t take out more people.
Certainly have the size and hardware for it, and I’ve seen them totally lit up in the open ocean.
Yeah I’ve seen them being really erratic, thrashing about in shallow water. Maybe thier time in the spotlight will come.
Bull sharks are whalers, family Carcharhinidae.
I mostly use whalers as a slang term though for others species like dusky (bronze) whalers and others.
Bronzies have been responsible for the occ. attack in Aus.
That is purely conjecture.
Why didn’t it hit that any other year before the ban?
You’re right. I had always thought that the year before the ban had multiple deaths in a single year.
But those bastards did turn into man eaters , though, if I remember correctly. Coming by back for seconds bites. Maybe I misremember that as well.
In Reunion they were for sure man eaters from the beginning. 4 attacks (2 deaths, one limb lost, one lucky escape) in 2011 – the first year of what’s called ‘the shark crisis’. That year Mathieu Schiller was attacked 30 metres from the beach (with lifeguards on that beach) and his body was never found.
Even prior to the ban on surfing (2013), many gave up or left but many others kept surfing. Attacks continued at more or less the same rate (2015 4 attacks: 2 deaths, one limb lost, one guy attacked 4 metres from the beach and got in) and they were always vicious repeated attacks and not mistaken ‘bites’ (as some ‘experts’ would have you believe).
yep in the 60’s the local fisherman took ALL the reef sharks for shark fin soup in hong Kong….then the tigers and the bulls moved in…another example of messing with nature has consequences!
Tiger and Bulls make great shark fin soup…..
Just saying……
Was also one of the theories put forward in Reunion: reef sharks either fished out, or reduced numbers due to fresh water run off affecting habitat, so more bulls came in.
Another theory was that there was a ban on bullshark consumption ( due to presence of a toxin) so their numbers went up, they came in and ate all the young reef sharks.
Reunion is a speck and most of the spots I know of are in one area
Australia is huge with dozens of surfing regions
Irrelevant.
What I’d say more relevant is what should be done about it.
Ban people from the ocean or as you say go fish?
Lets throw a hypothetical out there. If someone decides they want to start swimming laps around the Farallons or Ano Nuevo Island and gets whacked by a whitey, do you then go and “cull” all the whites at the Farallons and Ano?
Let’s bring it closer to home.
If someone decides to go open ocean swimming way off the ledge in Monterey Bay and gets breached on by a Whitey then that’s the consequence of an accepted risk, but if half a dozen surfers get munched on while surfing Cowell’s in the space of 48 hours then clearly Houston needs to know we have a problem.
If someone really is stupid enough to go swim the Farrallon’s my advice would be to lather yourself in anchovy paste and seal fat to speed up the process.
One would think that eliminating half the VAL’s at Cowells would be an overall positive for the world as a whole.
Glad you can see the positive effects of culling…
thats a terrible hypothetical.
Here’s another one- if a species recovery plan results in apex, ambush predator numbers increasing around highly populated coastal centres with large numbers engaging in water sports is there any ethical obligation to consider increased attack rates?
Here’s another: If a reduction in commercial fishing effort and improved biomass in estuaries results in increased bullshark populations and increased attack rates is there any reason why management of those bull shark populations should not occur?
No reason not to do both as there is an actual plan being followed. I said before, I’m not against mitigation. Start catching bull sharks, it’s not illegal.
Another screenshot for ol Dez.
Sooo many you probably lost count yeah?
At least I stopped sending you submissions….
Will they meander to Raglan?