It's hectic. Coral reefs getting bleached, societal collapse within a generation, Wozzle selling the message that planetary salvation can be achieved via surf comps in pools and air travel.
How do you like your eco-anxiety? Seriously.
No factor or are you starting to feel a little hot under the collar with the predictions of imminent collapse?
It’s hectic. Coral reefs getting bleached, societal collapse within a generation, Wozzle selling the message that planetary salvation can be achieved via surf comps in pools and air travel. If the Pixies were correct, which they may well be, we’re all gonna get buried by ten million pounds of sludge from New York and New Jersey.
I have no solution. My fabulous murfer pal from Byron Bay is fond of saying: eat pussy, not animals. That sounds as good as anything, with science behind it.
It’s hectic. Coral reefs getting bleached, societal collapse within a generation, Wozzle selling the message that planetary salvation can be achieved via surf comps in pools and air travel. If the Pixies were correct, which they may well be, we’re all gonna get buried by ten million pounds of sludge from New York and New Jersey.
Whatever your views on Nat Young, he can’t be dismissed as a puppet, part of a global green conspiracy or be indicted for child abuse. His thoughts are his own and he reckons that this thing he calls “surfer-consciousness” can help save the planet, or it’s human inhabitants at least, from environmental catastrophe.
I disagree.
I called Nat at his Angourie home to find out how surfer-consciousness could save the World. Me, parked up in front of Lennox skate park while boyo and his pal had a shred. Nat, 74 and daily surfer, fielded my line of slightly combative questioning with good grace, revealing, I think, flaws in both of our thinking.
A little firewood at the end to throw onto the Miki Dora bonfire.
LT: You’ve consistently said more surfers in the world will make the world a better place. Do you really believe that?
NY: Yes. I do. The essence of it is the older you get the less you need. It’s a matter of what you need to keep yourself sane and surfing. Soon as I came to terms with the fact that I’m older I really don’t feel any animosity or aggression towards people to surf with them. It’s my problem if I get over-excited and get too over the top with people. It’s 2019, not 1964.
LT:Sure, but what about this issue of over-crowding and aggression, isn’t that just a pure function of numbers in the water?
NY: For sure, but I’d rather do it that way and give away a wave. If someone is padding beside me I just say “go!”, they obviously really need it. I’d like it, but I’ve had so many waves in my life, it’s not critical. It feels really good to give away a wave. I prefer to think of surfing as a tribe, which means as a tribe we have to look out for each other. I mean I’d rather have people doing this than being bikies (laughs)…
LT: Well….What about the kiddies, how do they find enough waves to learn on, if spots are all packed out?
NY: I don’t have the answer to that. The problem is we were all lucky enough to have it before everyone else did. That doesn’t mean we should keep the cards close to our chest and go “My wave” or you can just go “Hey man, go!” and I bet if you do that, you’ll get one pretty soon. The alternative is really ugly. So, in the future does this mean maybe one day Lennox will have its own wave pool and Byron will have two or three and Ballina will have one?
LT: I hope not.
NY: It’s the same as skate ramps. We need more good quality skate ramps.
LT: I don’t agree. I think that analogy is flawed. Once the council builds it and the build cost is accounted for that facility is then free for anyone to use, whenever they want, whoever you are. Whereas a wavepool you’ve got a huge running cost with water and electricity which are the two scarcest environmental commodities and then you have to pay. You have to pay, per wave, or per hour, whatever.
NY: I know, one would think that at some stage if it’s our taxpayer dollars actually creating the pool, then possibly it would be more similar to a swimming pool. You have x amount of people in and you pay a nominal charge just to keep the pumps going.
LT: That’s a best case scenario. But anyway, tell me about this thing called surfer-consciousness.
NY: Well my wife doesn’t surf as such, but she’s certainly surfing conscious. What I’m talking about are all the associated people that are not surfers but they understand and think like a surfer and they understand exactly what we’re going through. You don’t need to surf . You understand all the very basics, like this climate change we are going through and I don’t believe there’s ever been a surfer of conviction who’s put plastic in the ocean. What the fuck, we’d never do that. In places like Indonesia and India, they don’t have surfer-consciousness.
LT: OK, but when you say this surfer-consciousness leads to a lighter footprint on the Earth. We’re flying overseas to chase waves, we’ve got twenty boards, we’re driving cars to the beach. Aren’t we some of the worst?
NY: Well, no. I don’t think so. I was just talking about plastics and I know surfboards aren’t biodegradeable, but I don’t think there is any way you can get around it. There’s gotta be some slack. We’re not conscious polluters. We don’t shit in our own nest. We do indirectly pollute.
The worst thing about Kelly’s pool was this guy called Raimana who’s on the jetski and he’s yelling at ya, “Get down Nat, get down!” and I’m just standing there going what the fuck for?, why would I get down? I can’t even see the tube. Usually the tube is ahead of you. So I didn’t get down and just got hit by a brick in the back of the neck. The wave comes from behind. I went back and got ten or fifteen more waves and everytime Raimana said get down, I got down I tell ya.
LT: Don’t we have a very heavy footprint though, we tread heavily on the Earth.
NY: I don’t think as heavily as a lot of other sectors of society. I mean there’s so much compromise involved in living in this day and age. It’s tricky, but at least surfers are conscious of it. They try not to pollute, they do their best. They still have to fly overseas to try and find their perfect wave.
LT: On that note, if the wavepools do take off, guzzling electricity and water, we’ve lost all claim to be any kind of environmental stewards then, surely?
NY: It doesn’t necessarily have to be like that, I think those are details. What about if it could be run on saltwater, using solar power to create the energy that creates the waves. I think all of these details will be worked out down the track. I had a really interesting experience at Kelly Slater’s wavepool in Lemoore. I don’t think it was anything like a real wave, but it sure was a nice thing to do. The worst thing about it was this guy called Raimana who’s on the jetski and he’s yelling at ya, “Get down Nat, get down!” and I’m just standing there going what the fuck for?, why would I get down? I can’t even see the tube. Usually the tube is ahead of you. So I didn’t get down and just got hit by a brick in the back of the neck. The wave comes from behind. I went back and got ten or fifteen more waves and everytime Raimana said get down, I got down I tell ya.
LT: After you’d ridden ten to fifteen waves did you get that full body stoke like you get from a good days surfing in the ocean?
NY: Oh no. No, no. Firstly, it’s icy cold water. I could have stayed out there for another one or two but they just turned everything off and said “That’s it, you guys have had your go.” It’s a really good experience, I’d do it again in a heartbeat. It’s nothing like going to Indonesia and the Mentawais. It’s just different. It’s a pool!
I don’t really watch any of the surfing contests at all. I find it repetitious and boring. I wrote a big letter to the lady who runs the whole act and just told her there were a lot of things they’ve got totally wrong and I gave her my suggestions. I’m sure they just threw it in the bin, but we’ll see what happens.
LT: Did you watch any of the pool comp?
NY: I don’t really watch any of the surfing contests at all. I find it repetitious and boring. I wrote a big letter to the lady who runs the whole act and just told her there were a lot of things they’ve got totally wrong and I gave her my suggestions. I’m sure they just threw it in the bin, but we’ll see what happens.
LT: Relating to the wavepool or generally speaking?
NY: I think they’ve created a bit of a monster that’s really not a very good reflection of where surfing is. Everyone’s got a mild interest in watching a wave being ridden by quality surfers but do we care about who wins the contest thing in the wavepool? I found the Teahupoo comp really good to watch mostly because I’ve been there and it’s a terrifying wave. If you have a fear factor that’s good. It’s good for everybody to be terrified of that. To watch people conquering fear is essentially seeing one of of the elements of surfing. That’s what we do. I think they sell it really short. You watch what a joke it’s going to be at this next Olympics.
LT: It seems bizarre they can’t craft this sport into something that all surfers can take ownership of and love even if they don’t compete themselves; they don’t seem to be able to figure that out.
NY: I don’t think they’ll ever do that because competition is a complete contradiction. What we talking about is self expression in a liquid medium that has these animals that are trying to attack you. There are so many things that make it not a sport. You’re never going to be able to judge one surfer against another. It’s a shitty sport.
LT: You have a chapter about Miki Dora in the new book. Enduring reaction to Miki seems equal parts fascination and repulsion. In a New York Times story he was painted as an out and out racist. What’s your take on that?
NY: Well, he was racist. Especially when he was living in South Africa. He was always a bit like that.
LT: You don’t think it was just him pushing buttons?
NY:I know he wasn’t. And he may have said racist things but he was a long way from white supremacy. He was a master player. To me, he was a really good friend.
LT: You think we shouldn’t judge him by todays standards?
NY: He was a man of his time. I think he was someone that really suffered at the hands of living and growing up in LA, in Brentwood. He hated Hollywood, he really did. And he did everything he could to fuck it up. But he also loved it. Loved the hell out of it.
LT:Do you see a time in the future when environmental considerations become more stringent and surfers might be only allowed to own two boards and take one overseas trip per year?
NY: There’ll be a lot of other things happen before that.
LT: Yeah, hopefully it won’t be in my lifetime.
NY: I do spend a lot of time thinking about my grandchildren and my grandchildren’s grandchildren. They’re being bred into this tribe of surfers, are they still going to be able to be surfers in a hundred years time?
LT: What do you think?
NY: I don’t know. If I think about it enough I can get pretty depressed. Because of the state of the world. But then Tom Blake believed that we (surfers) were the chosen race so if we get pushed to the point where we have to really unite as a surfing tribe then maybe we can have our own space where we can really make some changes for us.
LT: Optimistic.
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If kaipo doesn’t test positive I would be worried
Word. Herein lies the problem with the “eat pussy, not animals” argument – leads to overpopulation.
1) end game (if I understand your question properly) is the climate will gradually warm up. Some places like Canada and Russia will become ‘better’ in that they will be warmer (that’s a subjective judgement by the way), some places will be worse (too hot), but the ice at the poles and Greenland will melt and that will increase water levels by 70m if all the ice melts. I’ve already told you this twice.
By the way there’s a thing called a feedback loop. For example we are seeing this in the Russia where thawing permafrost (due to warmer temperatures) is leading to methane being released to the atmosphere, creating further warming. Methane is another GHG by the way.
2) Decreasing carbon footprint will mean less CO2 going into the atmosphere. That really should be self evident. I will go against the grain of environmentalists and say that you can’t concentrate on just CO2 footprint if we are at the same time increasing the global population. This is the dilemma of more efficient cars and planes which should make emissions drop, if only for the problem that there are just more people. So yeah, a different way of tackling the problem is we just have less people.
Of course the other way to remove GHG from the atmosphere is sequestration (pumping it down old oil wells), or even something entirely radical life reforestation.
3) The best solution is Nuclear power. See, I am not a greenie who refuses to use the N word. Environmentalists would rather we just use renewables and in some places if you got dealt a lucky hand geologically you can get away with it, e.g. geothermal or hydro or even solar. But not everywhere.
Or you can take the pragmatic approach and phase out coal and replace it with gas. You still get emissions, but you get less emissions burning gas than coal.
You’ll notice that these solutions don’t require batteries and those damn commies in China holding us to ransom. In fact one of the best solutions IMHO is use Nuclear Power to create Hydrogen (this is a simple process by the way, and you just Split the H and O apart from the water molecule). Day to day motor vehicles could be replaced by those burning Hydrogen rather than using battery power.
4) We are not in the warmest period in history. There’s been periods hotter and colder. What some environmentalists have done is hijack the debate and painted it in emotive context. Maybe they mean ‘history’ in a human context of recorded history. But no, it’s not the warmest period.
The point is that the warming is increasing at a faster rate than is natural. Throughout the earth’s history the warming has always been slow (remember that thing drivers that I keep asking you to google?)
Humans will survive because we can just move. Of course the economy
will be wrecked due to so many cities being flooded, but we will adapt
and survive. If that’s all fine with you then good for you I guess.
5) I have already told you that there is no ‘optimal’ climate. But that’s my perspective as a geologist who views things in a long timescale. What the IPCC have warned is if you increase global temperatures by more than 1.5 degree C (compared to 1990 level)s you won’t get the feedback loops happening and there will be little change to ecosystems as a result.
6) I don’t think anyone’s asking for the government to control our lives. Just to legislate to change the way we generate our power. I have no problem with us all having the same lifestyle we enjoy but derive it from non GHG. Yes there are greenies out there who would rather we all live in teepees and go vegan, but fuck them. That’s ideology driven agenda as stupid as the fox news crowd.
As for your last question: The simple answer is we now have more people on the globe. So the other solution to climate change is less people. Greenies don’t like that attitude, and nor to the religious nuts. But that’s a solution too.
Ha you’re a hoot mate.
Given that ‘continental drift’ hasn’t been used in Academia since the 70s (the correct term is plate tectonics) you’re either 60-70 years old or not really a scientist. Not to mention a scientist would never say ‘mute’ point (hint: it’s ‘moot’).
By the way, I am a Scientist. Yes, I do get paid to “do” Science. In my case I look for oil in rocks. Now my boss (if he wanted to I suppose) could tell me to go find oil in Hawaii, and he can pay me as much as he wants but he won’t find a drip of oil there because the rocks are all wrong.
For a guy who claims to have studied ocean sciences you really don’t have a good handle on the scientific method. That might be a phrase you could google as well.
Just to reiterate a few things that you missed previously.
The climate has been hotter and it has been colder. No-one is debating this.
There’s up to 5km of ice sitting on Antarctica (it’s thickest in the middle). If all that water melted you’d see the water level rise worldwide by about 70m. No one is debating this either.
Climate change means some places will get ‘better’ and others will get ‘worse’. That might be fine for humans in that we can just adjust. Not all life is so fortunate (need I explain why?). Be that as it may, we will still have to deal with all the low lying cities getting flooded.
If you really were a scientist you’d look at those CO2 numbers and ask yourself if the climate really is getting warmer, what else could it be that’s causing it? You might also ask yourself what the CO2 levels were in the geological record and what the climate was at that time.
Honestly mate, go google climate change drivers and let me know which one it is that you think is in play at the moment.
So what’s your alternative hypothesis? There’s actually some competing theories out there, but those theories are only shared by about 1% of the Scientific community. Are the 1% ahead of their time, or crack pots? Or are 99% of the scientists out there (including me) being paid off? Which do you think is more likely?
this is not the first time extreme warming has occured. there is along record of super exreme changes in the past. no hypothesis. where do you get your info.
from trump?
try doing your own research before you try to sound smart.
the lack of critical thinking, and the cognitive dissonance is strong in this one….
I had my fill listening to Nat & Cheyne Horan talk shit (crap) recently, here: https://thepaddleout.libsyn… Like I think Cheyne is one the most impressive surfers, ever. I am one of his biggest fans, as a surfer. But they are just surfers and should stick to surfing. I doubt adrenaline junkies & druggies set an example about spirituality or environmentalism or anything else related to higher consciousness or ethics. This is the major problem regarding surfers. Followers consider the leaders to know everything about life and the leaders often believe this themselves. They can’t accept a surfer such as MP, A.I, etc, can be bipolar. Every druggie that can surf very well is a Buddha, Jesus or Socrates.
So Nat is playing Mr. Nice Guy now? I guess the beating did him some good, he has a lot to make up for with his past behavior. That being said I saw him surf about 20 years ago and he was still amazingly skilled.
Nat Young was a great surfer but full of shit. There. I said it.
His performance in the Endless Summer II was unforgivable. (“c’mon w nut” and pink lycra shorts. Ugh what a tool).
His bashing at Angourie should never be forgotten. He was acting like a cave man. Too bad there bas a bigger thug than him. He got what he deserved.
Appealing to surfer consciousness might (or might not) appeal to the patagonia crowd but honestly, the surfing idyl of living in tee pees and singing kumbaya it just that, an idyl. You’d think he’d know that by now.
Why didn’t you ask him whether he still believes that French women are unique in that they (and only they) have the most perfectly shaped breasts in the world. Yes, that quote made it into Tracks or was it ASL.
Maybe you should have asked him if he still thinks it’s cool to get girlfriends to smuggle dope across borders for you because you’re too gutless to do it yourself.
The scientists aren’t bought. Get that straight. Climate change is not something that can be understood at the level of brain fart pondering while watching the news and thinking oh this summer was really cold, I thought it was supposed to be getting warmer.
The climate has changed in the past and will change in the future.
There are things called drivers, and the ones with the biggest effect are also the ones that take the longest to occur (meteorites notwithstanding). It’s probably worth googling them as it will help with your understanding of the topic.
One of the strongest drivers is the orientation of the continental plates. This is why Australia had tree ferns when it was near the south pole and still connected to Antarctica in the Cretaceous. Why? There was a current that flowed from north to south and kept the then south pole warm like the Gulf Stream does now. Sun intensity has also varied, as has the earth’s orbit. These drivers are in the order of 100,000s of years.
Where we have a disconnect is the Greenhouse Gas driver, especially CO2. Carbon has been diminishing over geological time due to Carbon getting absorbed into Limestone – CaCO3. It also gets absorbed into plants and then may end up in Coal, but it may end up turning into Methane and going back into the atmosphere.
I could go on and on about this but I think I have made my point. Iif you have any questions I will try to answer.
To answer your questions: some climate change will be ‘better’. The problem is you can’t take only the good parts of climate change without the bad. That means swamped coastlines and all low tide surf breaks gone. The high tide ones will be low tide ones but eventually you’re going to have all coastal roads swamped unless they are on cliffs. Also millions displaced and the cities eventually flood.
Second question: There is no optimal climate. Let’s put that to rest. Life has gone on just fine in hotter and colder periods unless you want to go back a few billion years. The key point is climate change has always been slow (except for the bit about meteorites blowing everything to smithereens). That means life had a chance to adapt to the new climate. Yes, some organisms became extinct in the process but most others lived on. And in case I am not being clear, I am talking over long time periods.
Don’t get hung up on weather modelling. Weather and climate are different things.
How do we get our hands on the “big letter to the lady”? Can you imagine Sophie opening that up and wondering who the fuck is Nat Young?
She’d probably think it was from the other nat young
I’ll bite… answers are here: https://climate.nasa.gov/ev…
In the past the heating and cooling trends happened over a longer period of time.
I don’t know the optimum temp.
What we are experiencing at the moment is more of a Global Heating than climate change which is bad yes.
Not forever, just not change so quickly.
?
you sure its not you who has a hard on for me?
seems like it, since you dont care about the past, limp wrist
looks like its up now LGR.
I think Chas is probs still recovering from last one.
but yeah, lets hope it happens.
France is on they have a word for everything.
Pretty sure the booth babblers are only on the official wsl cool aid anyway, ya can see it in their eyes (as my mum used to say haha)
Eyes like cult members.
Positive tests only!
Both bad