Advertisement
Dick Cheney and Kamala Harris.
Dick and Kammy.

Surfer vote veers left after Kamala Harris announces, “I like Dick!”

Sexy VP "proud" to be endorsed by “America’s most prominent living criminal.”

(Peter Maguire is BeachGrit’s occasional political correspondent providing a lifetime surfer’s take on the machinations of power. Beyond being a surfer, Peter is a war crimes investigator and author of Thai Stick: Surfers, Scammers, and the Untold Story of the Marijuana Trade, which Kelly Slater bought the film rights for, Law and War – a book about the Nuremberg Trials, Facing Death in Cambodia, Breathe, the bio on jiujitsu icon Rickson Gracie and, released real soon, its follow up Comfort in Darkness, “a masterwork about the art of combat and the invisible powers within us all.)

Why is Vice President Kamala Harris “proud” to have the endorsement of Dick Cheney, America’s most prominent living war criminal?  I have devoted my entire professional life to legal and historical accountability for atrocities, human rights abuses, and war crimes and don’t make this accusation lightly.  In my expert opinion, Cheney’s war crimes stem from his role as a principal architect of “the New American Paradigm.“When someone shows you who they are,” Maya Angelou wrote, “believe them the first time.”1

Kamala harris and dick cheney.
Kamala Harris, thinking about Dick.

Days after 9/11, against the advice of many of America’s military, foreign policy, and intelligence professionals, Dick Cheney convinced President Bush to replace the Hague and Geneva Conventions that govern U.S. soldiers’ battlefield conduct and treatment of POWs, with the New American Paradigm.

On September 16, 2001, the Vice President unveiled his plan to millions of television viewers on Meet The Press:

“We also have to work through—sort of—the dark side, if you will.  We’ve got to spend time in the shadows in the intelligence world. A lot of what needs to be done here will have to be done quietly, without any discussion, using sources and methods that are available to our intelligence agencies, if we’re going to be successful. That’s the world these folks operate in, and so it’s going to be vital for us to use any means at our disposal, basically, to achieve our objective.”

The Cheney‑led Bush administration replaced codified and customary international law with new, elastic and ever‑changing standards.  Adversaries were redefined as “illegal enemy combatants,” torture became “enhanced interrogation,” and kidnapping “extraordinary rendition.”

Even though the U.S. Second Court of Appeals compared torturers to slave traders in 1980, after 9/11 only those acts that resulted in death or organ failure were considered torture. According to this new definition, not even John McCain’s treatment at the hands of the North Vietnamese met the Bush administration’s new standard.

Since 2001, I have written and spoken out against “The New American Paradigm.”  I was never motivated by hatred for the United States, or sympathy for fundamentalist Islamic terrorists; in fact quite the opposite.  I worried about what would become of my country if we flouted the most basic norms governing POW treatment and war crimes trials.  “Although military commissions have been used throughout American history, given their uncertain historical legacy the president’s decision raises as many questions as it answers,” I wrote in “Questions Hang Over Military Tribunals,” a November 21, 2001, New York Newsday op-ed.  “Will ‘probative evidence’ in Bush’s military tribunals include information obtained in [illegal] mock trials, as done in many of the 1945 military trials?”  The answer, I would learn in late 2002, was a resounding “yes.”

After America consummated its sordid affair with Cheney’s “dark side,”  brazen disregard for the laws of war was elevated to a matter of principle.  By 2002, CIA paramilitary agents were clandestinely transporting suspected terrorists to top secret “black site” prisons outside the U.S. where they were tortured and interrogated. Afterwards, evidence obtained by torture was selectively leaked by the Bush administration to cabinet members, favored politicians and handpicked reporters to justify their actions.

During investigative trips to Cambodia in 2002–2003, I heard credible rumors about “Cat’s Eye,” a secret American prison in Thailand (also known as “Detention Site Green”) where CIA officials were torturing and interrogating suspected terrorists.

The world would later learn that Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded there eighty-three times in August 2002 alone.  After al Qaeda computer expert Abu Anas al-Libi was “rendered” to Egypt for interrogation in 2002, he claimed under duress that Iraq was training al Qaeda on the use of chemical and biological weapons.

Secretary of State Colin Powell would repeat al-Libi’s lies in his infamous 2003 UN speech that justified the invasion of Iraq.  Super-terrorist Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, “KSM,” confessed to masterminding thirty al Qaeda operations and even wielding the knife that decapitated Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl after months of torture, interrogation and isolation.

Abu zubaydah’s drawings of his torture.
Abu Zubaydah’s Drawings Of His Torture.

There was, however, one problem: evidence obtained by torture is not reliable.  A 2014 Senate Intelligence Committee report concluded that Abu Zubaydah provided no new or significant information.  Even worse, the same committee concluded that “the CIA’s use of its enhanced interrogation techniques was not an effective means of acquiring intelligence or gaining cooperation from detainees.”

Nonetheless, the Bush administration loudly declared the New American Paradigm a great success.  Over the course of the next decade, fifty-four foreign governments aided and abetted America’s torture and interrogation efforts.  Some hosted CIA black sites, others captured and transported suspected terrorists, and still others turned a blind eye when their domestic airports and airspace were used to transport prisoners secretly.3

Advertisement

By the time the United States invaded Iraq in 2003, extraordinary rendition, secret prisons, indefinite detention of American citizens, domestic espionage, and “watchlists” were all accepted as facts of life by a stunned and submissive American public who had the luxury of viewing the havoc wrought in their name from afar.  This arm’s-length relationship, however, was shattered in 2004 when Army General Anthony Taguba’s report on prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib was leaked to investigative reporter Seymour Hersh.  Bin Laden himself could not have staged a more successful propaganda coup as photographs of smiling, fresh-faced American girls leading naked Iraqi men on leashes flashed around the world in seconds.

One senior policymaker described the perpetrators to me at the time as “the seven soldiers who lost the war.”

The Taguba Report exposed to the world that not just the New American Paradigm, but also “torture’s perverse pathology,” had taken root. Historian Alfred McCoy would later make the important and overlooked point that torture doesn’t just fail to provide reliable intelligence, it also “leads to both the uncontrolled proliferation of the practice and long-term damage to the perpetrator society.”

In just three short years, America’s use of torture spread from a handful of CIA agents and military psychiatrists to common Army reservists and unaccountable “defense contractors.”

Advertisement

Equally important, America, according to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld’s own metrics, was now losing the Global War on Terror (“Are we capturing, killing, or deterring and dissuading more terrorists every day than the madrassas and the radical clerics are recruiting, training, and deploying against us?”).

Overnight, the land of the free and home of the brave had been transformed into the land of the surveilled and home of the scared.  Snitches, not truthtellers, were venerated and a bovine body politic passively accepted the Patriot Act’s unconstitutional overreach, the alphabet soup of new three-letter government agencies whose cyber gaze was now focused on American citizens, and the kangaroo courts that did their bidding.

After all, “if you’ve haven’t done anything wrong, you’ve got nothing to be afraid of.”

During the early years of the Global War on Terror (2001-2005), I regularly denounced the New American Paradigm on television, radio and in New York Newsday.

Advertisement

I accepted long delays at airports because I “was on a list” and was never surprised to find big, orange Department of Homeland Security cards in my checked bags informing me that their minimum wage mall cops had tossed my dirty clothes.  When people called me on my home phone and asked about the loud clicks, and obvious, audible interference, I explained simply that “the government is probably listening,” then added, “Fuck you, Alberto Gonzales.”

I was more afraid of my great‑grandfather and PhD advisor rolling in their graves for my failure to speak the truth than I was of the U.S. government.

That said, after the Iraq invasion, my work became increasingly lonely.  People I once counted as allies succumbed to various forms of pressure and got with the New American Paradigm.  As a result, I began to distance myself from them and they began to distance themselves from me.

I was fortunate to have a small, but strong, support system.  People like criminal defense attorney Andy Patel, laws of war professors Jonathan Bush and Gary Solis, journalists Ed Vulliamy, my editors Peter Dimock and Leslie Kriesel at Columbia University Press, Spencer Rumsey at New York Newsday, and above all, my fearless Southern wife, Annabelle Lee, always strengthened my resolve.  There were still others—Senator Jim Webb, Andrew Bacevich, Morris Davis—whom I did not yet know, but whose willingness to speak truth to power, also inspired me and reminded me that I was not alone.

Advertisement

Nobody, however, did more to strengthen my resolve than Rich Arant.  Like me, Arant had been very actively involved with the war crimes accountability efforts in Cambodia.  Long before the UN swanned onto the scene and held their imperfect and overpriced trials, the accountability efforts were led by the Documentation Center of Cambodia (DC CAM).  Both Rich and I supported their efforts.  While I donated my research to DC CAM, Arant translated many of their articles and books from Khmer into English.

Unlike me, Rich was not a civilian, but a slightly mysterious military professional who had worked in Southeast Asia since the end of the Vietnam War.  By 2005, I had spent more than a decade documenting Khmer Rouge atrocities, had interviewed many of the former cadre who had committed them, and knew the inner workings of Security Prison 21 (Tuol Sleng) as well as anyone in the world.

Nevertheless Arant’s short, four-page untitled preface to The Chain of Terror, a 2005 book about Khmer Rouge secret prisons, forced confessions, and executions by Cambodian author Meng-Try Ea, shook me to my core.

Arant wrote:

Advertisement

It was during 2002 that I first saw Meng-Try Ea’s draft of The Chain of Terror in the Khmer language. The author asked me to assist him with the English translation. Little did I realize then how much this work would come to haunt me during the next two years.

I recall as if it were yesterday sitting at a desk in the Thai Armed Forces Intelligence Operations Center in Bangkok during mid-1975 as a young Army NCO, reading the first Thai intelligence reports of the barbarity that swept Cambodia. My immediate reaction was that the reports were incredible, over the top. My assessment— propaganda.

My experience a decade later as an Air Force human intelligence officer interviewing inmates of communist prisons and reeducation camps in Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam had, I thought hardened me to the cruelty of prisons and interrogations. More recent memories of interviewing former Khmer Rouge cadre after the United Nations brokered “peace” in Cambodia convinced me I knew what evil these creatures, so unlike us, were capable of carrying out in the name of “The Organization.”

Translating The Chain of Terror was a fascinating opportunity to learn more about the evil perpetrated by interrogators and guards inside prisons that operated far beyond the pale of human decency. For months afterwards I would recall at odd times one female witness’s description of the sounds of clubs smashing the skulls of victims kneeling at the edge of freshly dug pits, “the sounds of coconuts falling to the ground.”

Advertisement

Then late one night in early 2003 I found myself in the “hard site” at Abu Ghraib, Saddam Hussein’s version of Pol Pot’s S‑21, just a few yards from Saddam’s infamous death chamber, and life changed forever. Standing there in shock, I recalled a phrase from a Khmer Rouge interrogator’s notebook—”When the interrogator is clear in his emotions and principles that the enemy arrested and brought in by the party is a ‘spy,’ the interrogator can successfully carry out his duty. Success is digging up the mysteries hidden by the prisoner and demonstrating to the Party that the prisoner was involved with the enemy.”  Upper echelon wanted answers and wanted them now. I soon left, ashamed at being unable to perform my duty.

When I sat down my first “terrorist suspect,’” I began with the question, “Why were you arrested?’’” Immediately I thought of the testimony of one of the witnesses in The Chain of Terror: “When I arrived at the interrogation room, the investigator told me to sit down and began asking questions. The first question every time was, “Do you realize why Angkar brought you here?”

Seldom does any interrogator really have any reliable information about the prisoner who sits before him. The interrogator must harden his heart sufficiently to act as if he already knows the guilt is there, so he can apply the necessary pressure to convince the prisoner that confession is the only avenue out of a bad situation. Just part of the job, I told myself, [but also remembering the witnesses whose testimony I had translated quoting their interrogators:] “Angkar [The Organization] has never made a mistaken arrest.’”

Arant’s preface continues:

Advertisement

Late one night during November 2004 at the American military prison at Bagram Air base in Afghanistan, I stood in the prisoner-in-processing room and listened to a young MP reading the “house rules” to a just-unblindfolded and still trembling “Taliban suspect.” The MP reads the rules verbatim from a sign posted on the wall behind the prisoner’s back. My mind flashed to the Ten Rules of Santebal [Special Security] written on the blackboard at Pol Pot’s House of Horrors, S-21. Every prison has rules, I assured myself.

I watched the stunned expression of newly arrived Afghans and saw the same expressions once registered in the in-processing mug shots taken at S-21. Exploiting “capture shock” is a necessary part of the game. I told myself.

Ugly, but unavoidable.

As I questioned an Afghan prisoner accused by an unknown paid informant of working against US forces, I went after the identities of anyone he knew who was cooperating with the Taliban, but was distracted by the recollection of Khmer Rouge interrogator Pol telling his prisoner Sen:  “Brother if you report the secrets of the party: meaning you betray your party and join with us, we will not be afraid to use you, But Brother, if you do not report, that means you are stubborn and are protecting treasonous forces.”

Advertisement

One night in the prison at Bagram I was interrogating an older man, a man my own age, a former Mujahidin cadre who had successfully fought with American support to drive the occupying Soviet Army from his land. A former Afghan communist prison commander, educated and trained by the Soviets, had recently taken a security position with the new free Afghan government and reported to US Forces that my prisoner was cooperating with the radical Taliban mullahs.

My prisoner had been “implicated,” to use the Khmer Rouge jargon. My prisoner had once been jailed by the Russians. I began describing how the Khmer Rouge had turned on their own cadres and tortured them to extract phony confessions, this during roughly the same era when the Afghan jihad against the Russians was occurring. I was preparing to make the point that he could trust an American interrogator to treat him with more respect than the Russians had. I was stunned to see this dignified man completely collapse in tears, unable to speak. After my interpreter and I gave him a chance to gather himself, he said, “I fought the Russians, our common enemy, and now you Americans have imprisoned me on the word of a son of the Russians. This is my reward.”

Since 2001, the words of American Nuremberg prosecutor Robert Jackson’s opening address have haunted me.  “We must never forget that the record on which we judge these defendants today is the record on which history will judge us tomorrow.  To pass these defendants the poison chalice is to put it to our own lips as well.”

After 9/11, Dick Cheney transformed Justice Jackson’s poisoned chalice into a poison keg.  Not only did Bush, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice, Chertoff, Feith, Perle, Gonzales, Ashcroft, Libby, Tenet and Black drink from it like frat boys during rush week, but so did their eager pledges—Yoo, Addington, Hadley, Miller, Rizzo, Sanchez, Bybee, Haynes, Goldsmith, Bellinger, Frum, and others.     .

Advertisement

Today, more than 23 years, eight trillion dollars, and a million dead later, America has never been more insecure at home and had less power, credibility and moral authority abroad.

“The U.S. is no longer the world’s policeman who will enforce the international rules based order,” one dispirited government official wrote me this year after the Biden administration abandoned the 100 million dollar Airbase 201 in Niger. “We’ve instead turned into the fat middle aged crossing guard, standing there in a neon vest, flapping our arms and yelling at the side of the road for cars to slow down.”

I once thought that the U.S.—Dakota War Trials (1862) and the Yamashita case (1945) were the worst stains in American international legal history.  However, the Kafkaesque farce that has dragged on for more than twenty years in Cuba, out of sight and mind, at Guantanamo Bay, stands without parallel.

Instead of facing the fact that we have hit rock bottom and ending the two decade-long bender, American leaders have unleashed the New American Paradigm on U.S. citizens who dare question whatever non‑oppositional ideology rules the day.

Advertisement

Because half of the country distrusts the Supreme Court and the other half distrusts the Department of Justice, no matter who wins this bleak election, the U.S. cannot move forward without some form of reckoning. The neoconservatives who created this mess and neoliberals who expanded and presently oversee it need to be held, if nothing else, historically accountable. As for Dick Cheney, although he will never wear headphones in the Hague, there is nothing that can redeem him. If the former Vice President had a sense of shame, he would join George W. Bush at his finger-painting studio in Crawford, Texas and vanish from public sight.  Instead, Cheney continues to insert himself into American politics, and it is up to us—democrats, republicans, progressives, libertarians—to shun him like a racist uncle at Thanksgiving dinner.
See my 2009 essay, “The New American Paradigm,” after the Postscript below.

(This story appears on Pete’s substack Sour Milk, subscribe, it’s free etc.)

Endnotes
1.    My great-grandfather, Robert Maguire, was a judge at the final American trial at Nuremberg and one of my dissertation advisors, Brigadier General Telford Taylor, was chief prosecutor.  Over the past thirty years, I have investigated and documented war crimes, written books (Law and War:  Americans History and International Law and Facing Death in Cambodia and articles about the experience, provided pro bono advice to defendants, plaintiffs, governments, and NGOs in war crimes and other high profile trials and investigations like Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia 1997-2015; David Irving v. Deborah Lipstadt/Penguin Books 2000; Donald Rumsfeld v. Jose Padilla 2004; Kiobel v Royal Dutch Petroleum Co. 2012; Investigation and arrest of Yan Yoeun 2021; John Knock Presidential Pardon 2021; Ann Shively and the estate of Michael Jay Shively v. Utah Valley University, Astrid Tuminez, Karen Clemes, and Sara Flood 2022.
2.    Nations involved in the New American Paradigm’s kidnapping and torture efforts included: Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belgium, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Canada, Croatia, Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Djibouti, Egypt, Ethiopia, Finland, Gambia, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Hong Kong, Iceland, Indonesia, Iran, Ireland, Italy, Jordan, Kenya, Libya, Lithuania, Macedonia, Malawi, Malaysia, Mauritania, Morocco, Pakistan, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, South Africa, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sweden, Syria, Thailand, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, Uzbekistan, Yemen, and Zimbabwe.
3.    Some of my more prominent stories:  “Questions Hang Over Military Tribunals,” New York Newsday, 2001; “Our Standards of Judgment Are Whatever We Wish Them To Be” New York Newsday, 2003; “Bush Can’t Have Justice Both Ways,” New York Newsday, 2003; “The Undoing of International Justice,” New York Newsday, 2004; “Here Comes the Judge: Hussein Trial May Set New Low,” New York Newsday, 2004; “Look at Our Prisoner of War Policy Now,” New York Newsday, 2004; “Soldier Serves as Scapegoat in Iraq Scandal While Higher-ups Duck Responsibility,” New York Newsday 2005; “Padilla:  US Courts Can Fight Terrorism,” New York Newsday 2007; “UN-Cambodian War Crimes Court Is Tested,” International Herald Tribune, 2009.

POSTSCRIPT:
When I wrote “The New American Paradigm” in 2009, I was working as a defense contractor designing, testing, and building combat rescue boats for the U.S. military.

0 0 votes
Article Rating

Commented on Disqus? Log out, tap the Disqus button, and your old name and comments come back. The box is ours.

Join the discussion

Your comments are still here. Every one of them.

Twelve years of BeachGrit comments came across from Disqus. Connect and we will show you how many are yours. We get your username, nothing else.

Unclaimed
Handle
Comments
Posting since

Connect Disqus to reveal.

Subscribe
Notify of
110 Comments
Newest
Oldest Most Voted
Derek Hynd's Missing Fins

Is there any other kind?

Rocks local

must still have some latent narcissism that needs to be addressed

Rocks local

couple years, nothing nearly as heavy as what I’ve heard from others on here – family trauma mainly, mixed with some existential angst. Torched my first marriage (for which I have zero regrets) but kids from that marriage were harmed in shrapnel, didn’t want anything to do with me for a while. Then did some couch surfing for a couple years bc had no cash flow, basic first world / white collar type problems. Didn’t miss too many meals or OD, just ate a lot of dollar menu tacos for a while and drank a lot of cheap liquor.

Ironically things started to turn in positive direction right before COVID hit, been pretty much upside since, second act has been chef’s kiss.

Rocks local

sounds like my (former) therapist.

‘let go of the law, and people become honest;
let go of economics, and people become prosperous;
let go of religion, and people become serene;
let go of all desire for the common good, and the good becomes common as grass.’

Shane Durian

only tears of laughter dear ape

Does arugula go particularly well with salt? There’s something great about a takedown that doesn’t quite make sense, I approve

Shane Durian

Again with the parents

Shane Durian

This is a strange thing to have on a surf site. It’s not so much surf adjacent as just a different kind of clickbait. And there’s literally no factual relationship between the headline and the article.

And yet it’s a very well-reasoned article from a voice worth hearing with, it seems, no axe to grind except avoiding perpetuating war crimes.

And then the commentary, wow folks, you’ve really gone off the deep end with the debate on the merits of Harris-Trump without much attention to the actual subject of the article, i.e. Dick Cheney is a war criminal and no-one should seek his endorsement, ever. He’s said nothing about Trump and next to nothing about Harris but somehow this is an opportunity to rehash the ubiquitous, impossible and circular debate between irreconcilable ideologies that cannot agree on the most basic facts…

Noncompetitor

What … does this have to do with surfing

Chief Hot stuff

Nothing can beat infecting the world for a presidency

notsurfingtoday

Why?

Michael Flatlately

This got me thinking how AI could probably achieve the ‘grower not a show’er’ concept in an article. Like, I scroll quickly through a short, chode-like article, straight to the comments – no harm. But for the slower, more patient individual, AI starts elaborating below the fold, in real-time, growing the article in length, perhaps even column width. For those still scrolling at an even pace, it even adds surprise end notes, backwardly footnoting the article, which then triggers vigorous up-and-down scrolling.

Rocks local

at least here in the USofA we are at a weird ass inflection point where things get stranger by the minute. Not to mention that mother nature seems fairly pissed off too, RIP Asheville, NC, etc.

Appreciate the reminders of dark places we shouldn’t forget, although right now the Dick on his Wyoming ranch is much less a threat to humanity than the one running for Prez.

Happy Camper

I don’t get it Rocks.
DT was President for 4 years, during which the U.S. experienced the lowest food prices in 50 years, the lowest fuel prices in 20 years, lowest unemployment (until covid) in history, an economic boom. Kim Jung Un, Xi, Putin all calm, and having good relationships with Trump and the U.S. lower taxes for the middle and working class, No new Wars. Abraham Accords. Did he facsist? Nope. Did he dictator? nope.

compare to the Harris biden admin. Highest fuel costs, Highest Inflation, Highest food costs. Wars, Wars, Wars. Out of Afghanistan and straight into Ukraine. The Middle East on fire. mass Corruption, mass crime levels, mass illegal border crossings, mass weaponization of the justice department.

What are they doing about the hurricane victims, Biden on the beach, Harris hollywood fund raisers. They knew the hurricane was coming, did they do any preparation? nope.
Biden is brain dead and Harris sucks…literally. Harris is a fraud that climbed to power riding on Willie Browns ladder. She’s a fraud who never answers a question except to tell her bullshit middle class family story. even her dad called her out as a liar.

You may not like DT, but he was a very good president, in spite of all the “Russia” hoaxes and bullshit the dems and media threw at him every fricken day of his presidency..

BTW- did you hear what John Kerry said yetersday about the 1st amendment? WOW! FUCKING WOW!

Rocks local

I’m not an ideologue either way on the policies. I hate both taxes and the government sticking their nose in anyone’s bedroom.

But putting everything else aside, if Pence had followed the cockamamie legal advice of Jon Eastman and Trump’s lunatic urgings of him to do so, the country would have been in chaos. There’s a reason Eastman lost his law license.

Did the msm torch their credibility by going after DJT on every little idiot and nonsense thing (including the dumbass Russian dossier) from day one?? Yes. Does that erase the fact that he literally tried to torch the democratic process? No.

Happy Camper

are you referring to J6 and election fraud?
J6 was as setup. Multiple FBI agents and CHS (“too many to count”) inciting the crowd, the DNC bomb hoax, Nancy Pelosi denying National Guard offered by Trump.
By law, congress have a right to stand and request a halt to the certification of an election if they believe or have evidence of fraud.
The riot and bomb hoax was meant to shut down opposition to the certification, which is not only their right, but their duty.

The only reason they don’t want Trump to be president and are trying so hard to eliminate him, is because he will expose all of them and their corruption…..and he wants to end the senseless death, destruction and waste of money in senseless wars. That’s their cash cow, their gravy train.
More Kamala…More War. It’s simple, peace or death?

BTW- how’d that Biden/Harris $billions to Iran and relaxing sanctions worked out? 180 ballistic missiles dumped on Israel today, courtesy of Biden Harris.

Brutus

gravy train did ya say??
Trump has and is making money off the poor people who believe in his twisted reality…bibles/crypto/truth social/gold shoes etc…….plus all the MAGA stuff…….pretty easy to see he’s grifter oif the highest order!

Otto

He’s a private citizen at the moment. That’s called free market capitalism.

Brutus

he’s a felon though!
yes he can sell products and it is a free market capitalist society…..where money and power rule , and don sure has cashed in……but more concerning is that he’s a felon facing prison if he is not elected , and his lust for money and fame at any cost…..??

Otto

I’m voting for the felon

Happy Camper

That’s all you got?
loads of bullshit reported by a shill media?
back to the shaping room, Mo.

Brutus

do you want me to post all the facts you don’t read …I like that we can have a conversation…..so…

you think that trumps commercial ventures like lets have a look at the facts…
The below list includes items available via the Trump 2024 campaign, and other items not related to the campaign or the Trump Organization.

“Make America Great Again” (MAGA) hats
T-shirts
Sweatshirts/Hoodies
Trump socks
Trump campaign flags
Jewelry
Mugs
Signs & Banners
Trump Coins
Calendars
Trump’s authored books (including The Art of the Deal and Crippled America)
Books endorsed by Trump (various political or conservative literature)
Trump action figures/dolls (available from third-party retailers)
Autographed photos (often part of fundraising packages)
Commemorative medallions or plates
Challenge coins
Phone cases
Laptop decals and stickers
Trump-branded vitamins or supplements: These are not available through official channels and were associated with past ventures like the Trump Network
Trump Wine
Trump bottled water: No longer widely available; previously branded as “Trump Ice”
Trump cologne (“Success by Trump”)
Trump 2024 merchandise
Trump NFTs
Trump watches
Trump bibles

now if you think the above list is not real…???

piss brohoff

there’s a sucker born every minute, Maurice. Donnie knows that better than anyone. in his book, even veterans are suckers. what a guy.

Happy Camper

“there’s a Sucker born every minute”.
That’s what Willie Brown said about Kamala Hoover Harris.

piss brohoff

how utterly Trumpian of you to engage in falsehoods and shallow misogyny. kudos for your unflagging sycophancy.

Brutus

he’s actually created a personal commercial cult following, so in one sense he’s nailed his MO….make more and MAGA….please drop your $’s in my account as y’all leave,LOL!

Happy Camper

Although I like DT, I don’t have any if these fine items, but honestly I’d rather have a Maurice Cole Surfboards shirt.

Brutus

coming soon, but looks like after 3 years of trying and $10K later , can’t get a visa to the USA……..but this doesn’t change that the Trump brand is cashing in on the Trump cult!

Happy Camper

It would be an instant classic.

Rocks local

Pence’s work as VP in certifying votes and Eastamn’s lunatic advice that he shouldn’t do so had nothing to do with the protesters and pelosi and whatever happened with the march on the capital etc. Pence showed a backbone and did the right thing and he’s been attacked by maga as a traitor when he literally saved the country from constitutional chaos. The fact that maga thinks pence was wrong is mind numbing lunacy. And again, had nothing to do with the Jan 6 protests themselves.

Brutus

didn’t don even call for the mob to hang pence?

Rocks local

yes, good point, exactly

Happy Camper

Constitutional Chaos?
it’s why the constitution was created.
Freedom of speech. Freedom to protest. Freedom to have your grievances heard.

Rocks local

you seem like a decent guy Happy, but this was not a freedom issue. Eastman was so far out on a limb even he admitted that none of the SCOTUS justices would actually agree with his nonsense theory, it was just fiction to support the Tump election bs. It was lunacy, and the consequences would have been dire.

Happy Camper

You seem a decent fellow, Inigo said. I hate to kill you.
You seem a decent fellow, answered the man in black. I hate to die.’

Gotta disagree with you. If the theory was such nonsense, then why not let congress argue their points, and let the theory be proven non-sense in front of all of America?
After all, how long did it take to count all the votes’ after all the shenaningans? Months.
BTW- Scotus does not get involved in elections after the Bush Gore BS.

There were numerous congressman and women and senators who were going to speak on the fraud of the 2020 election.
The way our country is supposed to work, is our congresspersons are our representatives, and our voices. why was it that the Dems were so adamant against the people hearing what our representatives had to say?

Let me ask your thoughts on the two Dem Lawsuits.
1. Georgia where dems are suing against a hand count of all votes to ensure an accurate count.
2. Arizona where Dems are suing against the States law requiring that you must prove your are an American citizen to vote.

Why? why would you fight against two laws that would help provide election fairness? because they’re a bunch of cheats.

hate Trump all you want for whatever reason you want, but if you vote for Kamala, kiss your country and any other elections goodbye, as their main goal is to get rid of the filibuster, the electoral college and to censor speech and thought, and as Hillary said: “a formal deprogramming of the cult members (referring to MAGA). and all political opposition”.

piss brohoff

the level of bullshit you peddle is astounding. maybe go back to pathetically namedropping all the pros you know. it’s more your speed.

Princess Bride quote gets you one upvote, though.

Happy Camper

you should own a bike shop with the level of bullshit you peddle.
PB, one of the greatest films ever.

Rocks local

touché, the seem like a good guy was kind of bullshit so I’ll own that.

As for congressional debate, that’s just making up a process that doesn’t exist and that’s where chaos results.

As for the last stuff, filibuster will hit both parties the same, that’s a wash; can’t get rid of EC without more than just a change in administration; I do agree that the first amendment stuff is pretty shit from the dem side, so we are together there.

Happy Camper

touché, nice parry on the Princess Bride line.
always a pleasure having a conversation with you.

Whoever wins, I know I will always have someone to hang out with in Florida.
we bought a house there two years ago. I have to go sometime this year.

Rocks local

hurricane season or feb/march, roll the dice you get a decent storm swell or one of those winter fronts. And watch out for the bull sharks!

piss brohoff

freedom to show up armed and beat cops with flagpoles. that’s freedom, baby.

Tina Dynamite

Hang on, didn’t homeboy already have four years to expose corruption etc? Going to be different another time how exactly?

Brutus

ask Steve bannon, Guliani ….scam after scam….even Guliani’s daughter weighed in with Trump destroyed my Dad!!

Happy Camper

yep, but he had the wrong guys in his cabinet and DOJ. all deep state.
he made a mistake listening to advisors, who didn’t want him to find the bodies. he was not a politician is relied in the veteran politicians to misguide him.
Not this time. break out the shovels boys, that’s where the skeletons are.

Tina Dynamite

The delusion that you magats carry around is wild.

piss brohoff

with all the hours you spend on QANON forums how do you find time to post your bananas theories on the Grit?

Pauly Matt War-Shore

Happy Qamper

Happy Camper

Personally, I’ve always believed Q is a liberal dem deep state psyop, so I’ve never read any of it.

piss brohoff

you would believe that! hahahaha. fuck, wow.

piss brohoff

finally, we agree on something. funding Israel’s holy war is big mistake. but what would Lapdog Donnie have done differently? serious question. or do Bibi, Putin, Xi, Orban, and the rest of the gang know he’ll roll over for a belly rub while they trample over borders and human rights?

Brutus

and then there were the facts on Donny’s time as el presidente……

Yep 2 m illegals crossed the border, but 20m merricans were employed…inflation down from 7%/Trump time , to about 2.4 % currently….ah which affects those who are living marginally…..
The whole world has been suffering from Inflation , but the USA has done best of all! Under Trump it went from 1.4% to 7%/fact!
Trump has admitted he lost the last election by a whisker , but ah no he still tells his gullible cult following that he and they were cheated..pure BS!
Masterson who was Dons National security Advisor where he claims all the despots/dictators treated donny like a child and all they had to do was stoke his ego and he was theirs…they think trump is a chump…end of quote……. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/09/hr-mcmaster-book-at-war-with-ourselves-memoir-trump-white-house.html
Hurricanes hmm reality check don and Marj were at a football game, Biden called and spoke to the Republican Gov and offered him whatever was needed…
Willie Brown really , is that the guy crashed in the helicopter,LOL,NOT!
Trump tell more lies than anyone I have ever heard of , it’s so fucken sad that people accept what he says as fact without checking the facts

Happy Camper

Inflation rates by year: Year Average
20160.90.90.81.00.70.40.30.1 -0.2 -0.3 -0.3-0.10.3
2017-0.10.10.50.60.90.91.11.11.21.31.41.60.9
20181.61.41.31.41.21.41.41.41.41.21.41.61.4
20191.62.02.11.82.01.91.81.71.82.12.01.81.9
20201.81.81.93.54.04.54.14.13.93.93.73.93.4

2020 was covid when in march inflation increased due to government spending in covid response.

We still have our highest food costs in history. no denial of that.

Re: McMaster
McMaster soon found himself at odds with both the president and other top administration officials. Trump, for example, pushed back hard against McMaster on crucial national security decisions, particularly the decision to escalate the war in Afghanistan.

Trump also publicly lambasted McMaster for saying the evidence that Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential election was “incontrovertible” — a fact the president repeatedly denies. McMaster also advocated for a more militaristic stance toward North Korea, consistently warning that time was running out before a potential war with Pyongyang.

McMasters was a deep state warmonger.

Brutus

hmm…Trump asked for plans to attack N Korea /iran…we all know what Trump thinks about the USA military= losers , Mc Cain loser, and anybody that was captured = losers….

keep going until 2021 when inflation reached 7%…..all western countries at present have the highest cost of living ever experienced , it’s a global problem , not just the USA

piss brohoff

you drank the bleach, didn’t you?

Happy Camper

nope, just lookin at the stats (facts).
Look em’ up. easy to find. all government stats, not MSNBC.

piss brohoff

you’re right. Biden should have shown up in North Carolina and thrown some paper towels.

piss brohoff

oh, you like stats? here’s some stats:

Biden has an average unemployment rate of 4.11%, the lowest since Truman. it’s at 4.2% right now.

Obama inherited a 10% unemployment rate from Dubya and cut it to 4.6%. Donnie “born on third thinks he hit a homer” Trump further reduced it to 3.5%. bravo, Donnie, bravo.

Trump University scheme cost Don the Con $25 mil.

guilt in submitting blatantly false financial data is set cost him $354 mil, or at the very least $175 mil if his pending appeal wins.

4 bankruptcies (or was it 6…heck, who’s counting?): Trump Taj Mahal. Trump Plaza Hotel. Trump Hotels and Casinos. Trump Entertainment Resorts.

$7.8 trillion national debt growth under the self-proclaimed King of Debt, mostly due to tax cuts for the 1%. btw, that’s the 3rd-biggest increase of any administration, relative to the economy.

i could go on, but i’m gonna go watch JD “Worm” Vance repeatedly lie on national television.

Happy Camper

Ohhhhhkay Maytag.
Stop the BS. I’m talking about presidencies, not the bullshit you’ve been fed by the media all these years.
Bottom line, you take covid out of the equation, the economy is a whole different story…..and in regards to your tax cuts to benefit the “1%”, it;s been proven that Trunps Tax cuts benefitted the middle class more than any other Demo.

piss brohoff

baldfaced evasion.

every time i reply to you, i’m doing my part to stop the BS, son.

piss brohoff

average incomes fell in 2019 compared with 2018, according to data from Trump-appointed IRS head honcho Charles Rettig. meanwhile, under Trump, the share of total income going to the prosperous and wealthy grew by 17% between 2016 and 2019.

how do you like your stats? overcooked? i prefer them served cold.

Brutus

please try and post the stats/facts you are using in your protrump points??

Brutus

and yeah we need to nuke hurricanes too,LOL

Happy Camper

I actually have a great story about that.
want to hear it? sure you do.

A few years ago a Cat 5 was on direct path to hit Maui and Oahu.
Thing was a fricken beast. About two hours before it was supposed to clobber the crap out of Maui on it’s way to Oahu, military jets scrambled from Hickam. we watched em fly out. Military had already evacuated several planes hours prior, but these were 8 fighter jets.
I had my computer on the entire day, tracking the storm. Shortly before impact, the storm completely dissipated, I mean like “poof”, gone.

watching the satellite image was amazing. The hurricane looked as if it was shattered like glass. I mean just BOOM, shattered and gone….in minutes.
Not saying it was a nuke, but having lived through many hurricanes and typhoons, I’ve never seen anything like it. maybe it was a test to see if they could destroy a major storm, and why not, they’ve been working on that technology for years.

Brutus

definitely not a nuke , as there is this thing that’s rather dangerous to humans called radio active….a lot of stories about Govts messing with the weather….but of course we will try shit , fail cause more grief, it’s who we are as humans

piss brohoff

i guess if you’re not too quick on the ol uptake you’d perceive Kerry’s comments as an endorsement of abolishing the 1st. but grownups understood that he was just explaining the reality of how the amendment works, and that it rightly protects even those who would spread lies. even you, Crappy Hamper. nice try, though.

Happy Camper

Your’e joking, right?
Start calling you Maytag, cuz that’s one heck of a spin cycle you got.

piss brohoff

if you truly believe Kerry wants to abolish the 1st, i got a diploma from Trump U to sell you.

Hippy

Did you know? Santa Claus Lane, a beach that no longer has sand, posted signs to protect the great white sharks.

Yup, no fishing for great whites, no harassing Great Whites and no interfering with the migratory patterns.

Sanctuary, VONR

Hippy

Gunna treat OB like Mexico. No valuables, doors unlocked, nothing to steal take Enterprise rental car be my guest

Gwen Walz’s Eyes

You can’t even make it out past the shorebreak. Go back to Topanga or 56th street

Hippy

Your failure in Florida is causing you to make unfortunate projections…. misery loves company?

Hippy

Ironically, I fell into a bag too, then another friend gave me a jar

All I said was that I enjoyed a choco and next thing I knew, i have an ounce of gifts in my shed.

Gonna come up next week and share with C4

Hippy

I did find the store. Oh boy.

Hippy

Peter, what do you make of the mess incubating now in Leb?

Chas, you have a perspective?

Good reading horrific history about to play out again

Now, back to surfing

notsurfingtoday

True grit. Harsh yet necessary read. Need to somehow summon enough attention span to down the whole thing though.

I wonder how many war crimes investigators i came across in any given lineup. Most likely occupations – stoners, bums, unemployed, man-child, real estate guys, rich expats, trustafarians, tech bros. Not this. Hard to compare but can’t imagine anyone contributing this much to humanity.

Is this surfings most underrated hero?

Michael Flatlately

“Do you understand why the entire lineup is angry with you?”

notsurfingtoday

I do! And I do my best to surf alone, but nowadays it isn’t easy/cheap.

ValiantScorn

…..

Occ Topus

Indeed.
Hence the saying “All is fair in love and war”.

Derek Hynd's Missing Fins

When country was a legit form of music, and its leading voices spoke truth to power–see esp 4:00 onwards from Kris Kristofferson (RIP) who’d laugh at a few in the BG family:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6_FWKLuY2s


110
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
()
x